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Disunited Kingdom?
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titchOffline
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PostPosted: 28-02-2012 17:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

The republic of the British isles sounds good to me. Very Happy
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Ronson8Offline
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PostPosted: 28-02-2012 22:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cromwell would like it.
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 01-03-2012 07:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBC Wales poll: Voters back tax power, but not independence

Almost two-thirds of voters think the Welsh assembly should have at least some influence over the taxes people pay, according to a poll for BBC Wales.
Only about one in three wanted to keep the current system where the assembly has no power to vary taxes.

Support for Welsh independence remains weak, with 7% backing it, rising to 12% if Scotland leaves the UK.

The poll also shows strong support for the Welsh government's public sector-only approach to the NHS.

Pollsters ICM found 28% of people thought the assembly should have the power to reduce or increase all taxes.
A total of 36% said some tax-varying powers should be devolved within limits agreed with the UK government.
But 32% thought the assembly should have no powers over taxes.

The institution gained primary law-making powers in a referendum last year, but has no say over taxation.
A commission into the future of devolution is examining whether more financial powers, including over some taxes, should be devolved to Cardiff.

The poll found 29% were satisfied with the powers the assembly has, while 36% said it should be more powerful.
A fifth (22%) thought the assembly should be abolished.

Seven per cent thought Wales should be an independent country, rising to 12% if Scotland votes for independence.

First Minister Carwyn Jones said the poll showed devolution had "bedded in" and that there was "a discussion to be had on transferring some tax powers to Wales".
"I have repeatedly called for us to have full financial borrowing powers as we remain only part of the UK where the government cannot borrow to fund roads and hospitals," he said.

"I have also raised the possibility of devolving control of areas such as stamp duty and air passenger duty as part of a comprehensive package of reforms for Wales."
He added: "Independence is simply not in the interests of Wales."

The Conservatives' leader in the assembly, Andrew RT Davies, said Welsh people had rejected independence.
"The arguments for the United Kingdom are clear," he said.
"The union has been a cultural and political strength which advantages all corners of it."

Plaid Cymru, the only one of the four main parties in favour of independence, said the support for further powers showed Wales was "growing in confidence".
Plaid AM Llyr Huws Gruffydd said: "The people of Wales are increasingly putting their trust in the assembly and devolution and they want to see more decisions made in Wales."

There appears to be little appetite for the kind of NHS reform being pursued by the UK government, with 77% believing service delivery should stay as it is.
Only 18% thought that changes similar to those being introduced in England by the Westminster coalition should be imported.

etc...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-17212309
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ScunnerlugzzzOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 17:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4168874/Fury-as-Ed-Miliband-blasts-SNP-on-jobs.html


Quote:
SNP MSP Kenny Gibson said: "The more negative they are about Scotland, the more negative the people of Scotland are about them."?


Negative, negative, negative.

Don't Unionists have any union divident to promote?

Many elections and referendumz have been swayed by negative campaigning in the past, but do the Unionist parties think that another two years of negativity is going to do it for them?

Quote:
The First Minister said: "There is a growing need for those parties against independence to set out what they actually stand for. They are united by negativity."
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gncxxOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 19:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent article by Charles Kennedy in The Herald yesterday about why independence is a bad idea, worth reading if you can find it (dunno if it's online).
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ScunnerlugzzzOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

gncxx wrote:
Excellent article by Charles Kennedy in The Herald yesterday about why independence is a bad idea, worth reading if you can find it (dunno if it's online).


I'll have a look for it, but again this sounds like why independence is a BAD idea. Another piece of negativity.
If the Union is a good idea, then why dont they promote it?
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ScunnerlugzzzOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 20:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scunnerlugzzz wrote:
gncxx wrote:
Excellent article by Charles Kennedy in The Herald yesterday about why independence is a bad idea, worth reading if you can find it (dunno if it's online).


I'll have a look for it, but again this sounds like why independence is a BAD idea. Another piece of negativity.
If the Union is a good idea, then why dont they promote it?


As far as I can see he talked about tribalism, the cult of personality (Salmond) and the need for the Unionists to unite...I may not have found the article where he actually talked about independence?
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 23:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scunnerlugzzz wrote:
...again this sounds like why independence is a BAD idea. Another piece of negativity.
If the Union is a good idea, then why dont they promote it?

But perhaps it's obvious to most people in the UK why the Union is a good idea, and they just wonder why nationalists don't understand this. Wink

Unionists think that Scottish nationalists are looking at the world through distorting spectacles, and should get their prescription checked!

Negativity works (or doesn't work) both ways. What are the plus points for independence? Would Scotland really be better off on its own, or is this just a ploy to make Alex Salmond seem like a bigger fish, but in a smaller pond? Twisted Evil
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MythopoeikaOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 23:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

rynner2 wrote:
Would Scotland really be better off on its own, or is this just a ploy to make Alex Salmond seem like a bigger fish, but in a smaller pond? Twisted Evil


Reckon you nailed it there.
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 05-03-2012 03:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mythopoeika wrote:
rynner2 wrote:
Would Scotland really be better off on its own, or is this just a ploy to make Alex Salmond seem like a bigger fish, but in a smaller pond? Twisted Evil


Reckon you nailed it there.

You really haven't got the hang of this at all, have you? This has very, very, little to do with Salmond. As far as most Scots are concerned, he's just the least rotten of a putrid bunch, at the moment. So, by trying to play the personality card, it just looks like you've really no idea why the Scots are so pissed off, or by just how much.

You should give some thought to the fact that, in a proportional representational parliament, one party, the SNP, somehow managed to win an over all majority. Since the State tends to keep Brits in blissful ignorance as to the true nature of such a parliament, then I have to tell you, winning that sort of majority in such a system, is extremely difficult, indeed. But, I can assure you, it wasn't because the Scots were hypnotised by Ales Salmond's amazing personality. The SNP didn't win that majority, the other parties lost it, decisively. Through acting like piles of steaming excrement. But, make no mistake, Scots want change, they've had enough of a system that, of late, has consistently worked so diligently against most people's best interests.

What does puzzle and sadden Scots, is the fact that so many people south of the border voted for so many of these piles excrement in human form, apparently because they were posh and promised to be good this time.

Frankly, most of the arguments I've seen from English sources, recently, re. keeping the Union, look more and more like the sort of arguments people use to try and preserve an abusive relationship. Manipulative, emotional, arrogant, patronizing and empty, with occasionally, just the hint of the threat of hidden violence.

Still, if Scotland's internal politics keep the English distracted from just how completely the Government in Westminster is betraying the British people, then it will serve the Tory purpose.

You'd probably be better off worrying about what's happening closer to home.
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SpookdaddyOffline
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PostPosted: 05-03-2012 09:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
...Frankly, most of the arguments I've seen from English sources, recently, re. keeping the Union, look more and more like the sort of arguments people use to try and preserve an abusive relationship. Manipulative, emotional, arrogant, patronizing and empty, with occasionally, just the hint of the threat of hidden violence...


I made that same point a few weeks ago - and, if anything, I think the image is becoming more appropriate as time goes by.

The only thing I would say is that Scotland and England seem to be at different stages of their rocky relationship. I'd argue that Scotland had probably passed through its 'bitter' phase - in the main - by about four or five years ago (and boy could it be bitter*). England - where the subject of Independence has only really become mainstream relatively recently - is way behind in dealing with its issues and seriously needs to get a grip - possibly some relationship counselling would not go amiss.

(*I'm talking generally - in my experience, some Scots will never be anything but bitter, whatever the Independence situation, others never were much bothered by the neighbours and always wondered what the fuss was about.)
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ted_bloody_maulOffline
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PostPosted: 05-03-2012 10:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
You really haven't got the hang of this at all, have you? This has very, very, little to do with Salmond. As far as most Scots are concerned, he's just the least rotten of a putrid bunch, at the moment. So, by trying to play the personality card, it just looks like you've really no idea why the Scots are so pissed off, or by just how much.

You should give some thought to the fact that, in a proportional representational parliament, one party, the SNP, somehow managed to win an over all majority. Since the State tends to keep Brits in blissful ignorance as to the true nature of such a parliament, then I have to tell you, winning that sort of majority in such a system, is extremely difficult, indeed. But, I can assure you, it wasn't because the Scots were hypnotised by Ales Salmond's amazing personality. The SNP didn't win that majority, the other parties lost it, decisively. Through acting like piles of steaming excrement. But, make no mistake, Scots want change, they've had enough of a system that, of late, has consistently worked so diligently against most people's best interests

What does puzzle and sadden Scots, is the fact that so many people south of the border voted for so many of these piles excrement in human form, apparently because they were posh and promised to be good this time.


It shouldn't puzzle us too much since twice as many of us voted for those piles of steaming excrement as voted for the alternatives.

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
Frankly, most of the arguments I've seen from English sources, recently, re. keeping the Union, look more and more like the sort of arguments people use to try and preserve an abusive relationship. Manipulative, emotional, arrogant, patronizing and empty, with occasionally, just the hint of the threat of hidden violence.


Agreed.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 05-03-2012 14:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some curious reports today that Salmond is cosying up to Rupert Murdoch. I'm pretty shocked by this, given the recent revelations about the Murdoch empire; I always felt that the SNP were unprincipled but this seems to take this to another level.

Is Murdoch trying to break the Union in revenge for the exposure of the phone hacking scandal?
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ted_bloody_maulOffline
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PostPosted: 05-03-2012 14:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quake42 wrote:
Some curious reports today that Salmond is cosying up to Rupert Murdoch. I'm pretty shocked by this, given the recent revelations about the Murdoch empire; I always felt that the SNP were unprincipled but this seems to take this to another level.

Is Murdoch trying to break the Union in revenge for the exposure of the phone hacking scandal?


Murdoch has been backing the SNP for a while now:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-13128712
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 05-03-2012 15:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

ted_bloody_maul wrote:
Quake42 wrote:
Some curious reports today that Salmond is cosying up to Rupert Murdoch. I'm pretty shocked by this, given the recent revelations about the Murdoch empire; I always felt that the SNP were unprincipled but this seems to take this to another level.
Is Murdoch trying to break the Union in revenge for the exposure of the phone hacking scandal?


Murdoch has been backing the SNP for a while now:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-13128712

Murdoch is the sort of scunner who can afford to back every horse. Mostly, he has previous for backing the winning team, in most elections in the UK, since at least, 1979. He's a shrewd populist who likes to sell papers as much as he likes to peddle influence.

I expect many odd rumours and 'curious reports' to pop up around Salmond, over the next few months. That's how what passes for politics are conducted in the UK, these days. Scottish NuLabor and the Scottish LibDems appear to have their own in-house, 'Skunkworks' dedicated to spinning all sort of scurrilous yarns. Like Murdoch and his empire, they too are morally bankrupt. Situation normal.


Last edited by Pietro_Mercurios on 05-03-2012 15:19; edited 1 time in total
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