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Unidentified Sunken Object

 
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rynner2Online
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PostPosted: 12-04-2012 16:37    Post subject: Unidentified Sunken Object Reply with quote

Submarine or boat 'submerged in Lough Foyle'

Environment Minister Alex Attwood has said what appears to be a submarine or boat has been identified submerged in Lough Foyle.
Mr Attwood said he had viewed sonar images of the vessel.
"I have asked that urgent work is undertaken to determine how and when the submarine or boat came to rest in this part of the lough.
"It is unusual that there appears to be no record of the circumstances behind this situation," he said.

"I have also asked that all agencies continue to work with DOE and the harbour commissioner to create certainty about the identity of and the reason why the submarine/boat is in the current location."

He said it was crucial that no diving should occur in the vicinity of the vessel.
"There may be unexploded ordnance which means there are potential risks. This may also be a war grave," he said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17692429

It was probably used for smuggling Bushmills whiskey! Wink
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 12-04-2012 17:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Wikipedia (for what it's worth) ...

Quote:

At the end of World War II after the Allied victory, the remainder of the German atlantic fleet of U-boats used to attack supply lines from America to Britain during the Battle of the Atlantic (1939–1945) were assembled in Lough Foyle and scuttled, as part of Operation Deadlight.
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PostPosted: 12-04-2012 17:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

This newly-noted wreck may be one of the U-boats that never made it to the intended scuttling locations. Again - from Wikipedia:

Quote:

When Operation Deadlight was put into practice it was found that many of the U-boats were in an extremely poor condition as a result of being moored in exposed harbours while waiting for disposal.[2] Combined with poor weather this meant that 56 of the boats sank before reaching the designated scuttling areas and those which did were generally sunk by gunfire rather than explosive charges.[2] The first sinking took place on 17 November 1945 and the last on 11 February 1946.
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 12-04-2012 17:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

A sonar image of the wreck can be seen at:

http://www.u.tv/News/Submerged-vessel-may-be-war-grave/1fd2fec6-4e61-4c2e-8da4-577accee0de9
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rynner2Online
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PostPosted: 13-04-2012 06:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were German subs in Falmouth too:
Quote:
Falmouth Submarines
At the end of a the First World War the Royal Navy already had a large surplus of ships and there was hardly any need to put captured German ships into service, especially as many were old and damaged by four years of warfare. The British solution was to store the captured vessels at anchor and then use them for gunnery practice.

Such was the intended fate of eight ex German Navy submarines held at anchor in Falmouth bay. The first two were duly used as gunnery targets and dispatched to the depths. The remaining six submarines were left at anchor until a storm caused anchors to drag and chains to break. Five submarines ran aground on the rocks at Pendennis Point.

Once in the water it is easy to find submarine wreckage. It is possible to jump in from the rocks almost on top of one of the submarines. All the wreckage is in shallow water, less than 7 or 8 metres even at high tide. It is even possible to snorkel these wrecks.

http://www.jlunderwater.co.uk/old_site/photoix/falmouth/index.htm

I thought there were similar stories relating to WWII subs, but I can't find any references ATM.
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 13-04-2012 13:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

The press is finally realizing it may be a WWII German craft. This _Derry Journal_ article:

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/is-this-the-foyle-s-mystery-submarine-1-3730070


... gives some additional factoids about the discovery, and it provides an RN photo of surrendered U-boats docked at Lisahally.

Speculation seems to be centered on a unique small U-boat shown in the photo.
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 15-04-2012 17:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

The relatively smaller U-boat shown in the _Derry Journal_ photo appears to be a Type XXIII 'elektroboot' (the smaller coastal version of the advanced Type XXI electric U-boat).

That's the only smaller U-boat variant I can find with the noticeable 'backpack hump' adjacent to the conning tower that one can see in the photo.

I can't seem to (re-)locate the mystery wreck's sonar image that was once posted somewhere, so as to see if it seems to match a Type XXIII.

There were multiple Type XXIII's moored at Lough Foyle and subsequently scuttled. At least one foundered on its way to the designated scuttling point, but (according to a listing a u-boats.net) it was still sunk out at sea and not within the Lough.
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PostPosted: 27-04-2012 15:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Hope of lough U-boat discovery sunk

The anticipated discovery of a sunken German submarine in Lough Foyle has turned out to be a sonic illusion.

A search team from Mallow, Co Cork, using sonar equipment came across what they believed to be a wreck on the lough bed near Londonderry.

But the outline of what was thought to be a rare German midget U-boat turned out to be just that - an outline.

Northern Ireland environment minister Alex Attwood called in marine experts to check if it was a submerged sub or shipwreck. They carried out a series of sonar surveys in the lough which was once a major naval base during the Second World War.

He said: "The original image that excited interest was the form of a 'sonic illusion'. When the site was scoped out the sonar exaggerated and enlarged what is there in the sweep around the site.

"There is no doubt for a moment there was a thrilling possibility which has now not come to pass. I do share a sense of disappointment."

The search and rescue team from Mallow was told to keep the location and the details quiet until the checks were completed. There were even fears in Derry that any unexploded device on board could be a threat to divers.

The Mallow team's £36,000 side scanning sonar was donated by the family of Brian O Tuama, from Ballyvourney in Co Cork, when their 19-year-old son drowned in the River Lee in November 2009.

His body was found by the Mallow unit 12 days later and his father Brian set up a fund afterwards to help equip the unit.

SOURCE: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/offbeat/hope-of-lough-uboat-discovery-sunk-16151042.html
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rynner2Online
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PostPosted: 27-04-2012 16:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like a new Fortean category - Sonic Illusions!
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PostPosted: 27-04-2012 16:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

This incident is a good reminder that 'phantom observables' can be obtained with any level of technical instrumentation. Embarassed

In a way, I'd be glad to accept this explanation. For reasons I still don't claim to understand, this particular story had sparked a lot of interest on my part. However, the more I dug into it the less explicable it seemed to become. For example:

* The original sonar image had been posted along with many of the various news stories, but it was too small and grainy to make out many details.

* The 'top view' image seemed to include what appeared to be appurtenances or extensions atop the 'wreck' that wouldn't have been part of any WWII sub - leading me to wonder if it might be the yacht some stories noted as having been sunk in the lough a long time ago.

* I checked a variety of U-boat / submarine info sites on the Web (some of which are quite detailed / elaborate), but couldn't find any WWII era sub whose hull profile matched the sonar image. I checked both German and British subs. Additionally, I couldn't find any WWII era sub whose apparent length and configuration reasonably matched the apparent wreck.

* Early on, some news outlets posted a WWII-era photo of German U-boats tied up in the lough awaiting disposition - emphasizing the smaller (Type XXIII electric) U-boat among them as a possible candidate for the wreck. As more clues emerged, I realized the Type XXIII's dimensions and configuration were nowhere near the apparent wreck's layout.

* Perhaps most confusingly, data posted from Operation Deadlight (the U-boat scuttling operation) indicated that some U-boats foundered before reaching their intended scuttling locations, but (a) all were accounted for and (b) the stated locations of all their sinkings were all well outside the mouth of the lough (whereas this 'wreck' was at the other - inland - end).

So I've been impatiently waiting for someone to find out what (if anything, as it turns out ...) was really down there.
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