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Dingo667Offline
I'm strange...but true
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 21:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't find the monkeys racist, why should I?
However to link them with black people and then say they are representative of them by saying they are racist...now THAT is extremely racist!
Wink
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SpookdaddyOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 22:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dingo667 wrote:
I don't find the monkeys racist, why should I?
However to link them with black people and then say they are representative of them by saying they are racist...now THAT is extremely racist!
Wink


It's always about context and intent.

For example, when hundreds of Portuguese football fans make monkey noises when a black player touches the ball, they are clearly being racist - and whatever opinions you, me, or anyone else, has about monkeys won't change that.

But in this case, yes, it's clearly the complainant who is insisiting on the connection - against, it appears, all common sense. What I don't think you can do is use what has happened here to infer that the potential for a real and intentional insult does not exist.

Apart from this just being a stupid waste of time, money and effort, this idiot just made it more difficult for those who have real problems with racism because, lets face it, there are a depressing number of people out there looking for any opportunity to belittle the problem when it really does rear it's ugly head.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 22:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idiot was helped by the fact that the union leadership wanted to get rid of these "troublemakers". The awkward squad who challenge sellouts will always be a target for the beauocracy .
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Ronson8Offline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 23:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
The idiot was helped by the fact that the union leadership wanted to get rid of these "troublemakers". The awkward squad who challenge sellouts will always be a target for the beauocracy .
Yep, you hit the nail on the head there.
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SpookdaddyOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 23:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
The idiot was helped by the fact that the union leadership wanted to get rid of these "troublemakers". The awkward squad who challenge sellouts will always be a target for the beauocracy .


Which leads to the rather tasty irony of the Telegraph clearly sympathising with 'four hard-Left trade unionists': victims of the PC juggernaut this week - card carrying members of the enemy within next.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2012 23:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spookdaddy wrote:
ramonmercado wrote:
The idiot was helped by the fact that the union leadership wanted to get rid of these "troublemakers". The awkward squad who challenge sellouts will always be a target for the beauocracy .


Which leads to the rather tasty irony of the Telegraph clearly sympathising with 'four hard-Left trade unionists': victims of the PC juggernaut this week - card carrying members of the enemy within next.


Indeed. One day they help you across the road. The next they demand that your walking frame be taken away as its an unaffordable luxury.
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milk23Offline
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PostPosted: 08-03-2012 17:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ronson-
Yep, you hit the nail on the head there.


careful, as a representative of the carpenters guild I have to warn you that
I may be offended by that remark at a later date
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StormkhanOffline
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PostPosted: 12-03-2012 16:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unison has become pretty hard-line lately. The offence was "taken" as an excuse to get rid of those not in support of the hard-line leadership. So, apart from setting back any support for those complaining against racism, it's also putting the frighteners on any opposition to union reps. Unison will be the first to organise "boot squads" to "discuss issues" with blackleg workers in any strike, I bet.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 12-03-2012 19:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormkhan wrote:
Unison has become pretty hard-line lately. The offence was "taken" as an excuse to get rid of those not in support of the hard-line leadership. So, apart from setting back any support for those complaining against racism, it's also putting the frighteners on any opposition to union reps. Unison will be the first to organise "boot squads" to "discuss issues" with blackleg workers in any strike, I bet.


Actually those who were expelled are to the left of the leadership. I don't think the leadership is that hard, they have pushed through some compromises/sellouts (take your pick). Its the left opposition who get hammered, figuratively.
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rynner2Online
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PostPosted: 22-03-2012 21:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

When politics and humour collide:

Robert De Niro apologises for first lady quip

Actor Robert De Niro has apologised for a quip he made at a Democratic fundraiser that the US might not be ready for "a white first lady".
The Raging Bull star was introducing the First Lady, Michelle Obama, at an event in New York.

"My remarks, although spoken with satirical jest, were not meant to offend or embarrass anyone - especially the first lady," he said.
Republican candidate Newt Gingrich called the remarks "inexcusable".

During his introduction at Monday's fundraiser, De Niro, 68, alluded to Mr Gingrich's wife, Callista.
"Callista Gingrich, Karen Santorum, Ann Romney. Now do you really think our country is ready for a white first lady? Too soon, right?" he told the audience.

Mr Gingrich deemed the remark "divisive", and called on President Obama to apologise on the actor's behalf.
"On behalf of my wife and on behalf of Karen Santorum and on behalf of Ann Romney, I think that Robert De Niro's wrong," Mr Gingrich said.
"I think the country is ready for a new first lady and he doesn't have to describe it in racial terms."

Michelle Obama's press secretary said the joke was "inappropriate."
However, Ann Romney - wife of Republican candidate Mitt Romney - told Piers Morgan, on CNN, that she took the remark for what it was - "a joke".
"In politics the fastest way to get in trouble is make a joke. So I think Robert De Niro just learned that."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17472323
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milk23Offline
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PostPosted: 28-03-2012 21:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In politics the fastest way to get in trouble is make a joke.


Further qualifying the septic world of politics for it's lowly station.

Cheat and lie = no problem
joke = trouble
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rynner2Online
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PostPosted: 18-04-2012 06:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could one say this is 'poor taste'?

Swedish minister in 'racist cake' controversy

Sweden's culture minister is facing calls to step down after she was photographed cutting a cake designed like an African tribal woman.
The incident involving Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth happened at the Museum of Modern Art in Stockholm.
According to Radio Sweden, the museum said the cake was supposed to highlight the issue of female circumcision.

But the Association for African Swedes said it was a crude racist caricature and called for Ms Liljeroth to resign.
Kitimbwa Sabuni, a spokesperson for the group, told Swedish news agency TT: "To say that you did this for a good cause only makes the mockery of people who are victims of racism and of circumcision worse."

The artist behind the cake, Makode Linde, who is black but was born in Stockholm, said the work had been misunderstood.
He told TT: "Considering the poor offering of art in Sweden that could be defined as African-Swedish, one would have hoped that the people in the National Association for African Swedes were more aware of the artwork that I do."

The news agency reported that Ms Liljeroth had said she could "understand that this can feel provocative".
"It was a bizarre situation. I was invited to speak at World Art Day about the freedom of art and the right to be provocative, and then they asked me to cut up the cake," the minister said.

The cake was in the shape of the naked upper body of an African woman and was filled with a blood-red sponge. Mr Linde painted his own face and took the place of the head.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17749533
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MythopoeikaOffline
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PostPosted: 18-04-2012 10:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

That cake is just shocking.
I don't think it can be considered 'racist', because the artist who made it is black.
It was just a very ill-considered idea.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 18-04-2012 10:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, because the real outrage here is the cake. Not the mutilation of young girls.

Evil or Very Mad
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SpookdaddyOffline
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PostPosted: 19-04-2012 14:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that I’m probably becoming a bore about this, but as it does seem applicable to so many discussions (there’s a similar one going on elsewhere at the moment) I’m just going to repeat myself: content/context/intent - it’s a very simple and obvious test, at least it seems simple and obvious to me.

I’d argue that content (whether it’s a word, an object, an image etc) is, generally speaking, a neutral factor which is virtually meaningless without reference to the other two elements – the potential to be offensive may well be there, but that potential is latent and depends entirely on context and intent.

The cake, which is pretty obviously the content in this case, does look pretty grotesque (but then no more so than many traditional African masks). However, we also have clear context and intent, the nature of which, to my mind, neutralises the potential for the content to be purely offensive - in this case.

Making a judgement on content alone is to my mind dangerous. Yes, replace Ms Liljeroth with Marine Le Pen, or Nick Griffin, and move the scene, and (this is important) the very same content, from a museum of art to a right-wing party conference, and you've got a whole different ball game. But then if you were to remove a photograph of a malnourished African child from an emergency appeal advertisement and place it on the website of some swivel-eyed Klan eugenicist you’ve also got a very different story – so, would the same pundits who have taken offence to the cake also suggest banning emotive photographs from charity advertisements?

However there’s a flip-side to this for all those crusaders against political correctness, in that it’s not really possible to make an informed judgement either way by simply looking at the content. A certain type of story, and a certain type of knee-jerk response, occurs fairly regularly on this thread – the thrust of which revolves around the ridiculousness of a complaint and implied oversensitivity of the complainant. Very often these stories either entirely ignore context and intent, or are deliberately vague about them, and concentrate entirely on the content. This kind of response is, to my mind, just as nonsensical as the reverse.
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