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possesion and mental illness
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 14-08-2003 04:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goldstein, you are right about the paradigms, however, the difference is that there is physical evidence of mental illness, but there is no physical evidence for possession.

These days they can see via MRI's and such the physical changes in the brain that cause many mental illnesses, and also locate the genes which cause them

There is no equvialent proof for possession

Science and medicine differ from religion in that they base their beliefs on research, not the opinions of holy men/women who often display evidence of mental illness themselves!
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YithianOffline
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PostPosted: 11-09-2005 04:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maeve~ wrote:

Science and medicine differ from religion in that they base their beliefs on research, not the opinions of holy men/women who often display evidence of mental illness themselves!


And presumably researchers hold no subjective opinions? Or does this 'research' just pop into existence as objectively true and verified.

It's a very naive dichotomy you're drawing here.
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YithianOffline
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PostPosted: 11-09-2005 04:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

FelixAntonius wrote:
BHS (British Home Stores), did some fancy 'dresses', for pets, a few Christmas's ago. They included a crown & robes. Unfortunately, the animal libbers didn't like them & they were withdrawn!!!!!Blah


You can buy coats for sausage dogs that look like buns with kethup & mustard layers in. Cool
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 11-09-2005 11:32    Post subject: really just needed to say that.......... Reply with quote

FelixAntonius wrote:

I also saw, many years ago, some crap (so called) research film, dating (I think)from the 1950's, in which a cat was induced to have a kind of nervous breakdown & was then induced to drink alcohol to improve it's self esteem.


....it always amazes as to what terror and suffering that is inflicted on animals purely in the pursuit of 'science'. Sad
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 11-09-2005 11:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

theyithian wrote:
FelixAntonius wrote:
BHS (British Home Stores), did some fancy 'dresses', for pets, a few Christmas's ago. They included a crown & robes. Unfortunately, the animal libbers didn't like them & they were withdrawn!!!!!Blah


You can buy coats for sausage dogs that look like buns with kethup & mustard layers in. Cool


there is a huge market for this kind of stuff in America. last year when my mum came home from her hols in Florida she brought back some little 'superman' and 'princess' costumes for my cats. Rolling Eyes
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YithianOffline
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PostPosted: 11-09-2005 14:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://paranormal.about.com/od/demonsandexorcism/a/aa031405.htm

This is on the frontpage at the moment but doesn't seem to have made it to a thread. All completely unverifiable, of course, but eerry and strangely compelling nonetheless. Turn it up nice and loud and let your imagination run amok with the cliched back story (Note: Link in this text does work):

Quote:
Exorcism in Russia
From Stephen Wagner,

EXCLUSIVE: Hear an extraordinary recording of an actual exorcism
A sixteen-year-old girl sits in a chair in a Russian Orthodox Church. She is being held down by her mother. Light filters in from high windows and the air is thick with tension and the smell of holy incense. A priest stands over her reading the rite of exorcism. The girl squirms in her mother’s arms, groaning and growling as if the priest’s words were a torment to her mind and soul. The girl struggles violently, her groans becoming inhuman howls and deep, guttural moans of psychological pain. Then she lashes out at the priest, and in a voice that seems not to be her own, spits words of defiance.

This is not a scene from a Hollywood production. This is a partial description of an actual exorcism that took place in a Russian parish on May 1, 2004.

You can hear an actual recorded excerpt from this exorcism HERE (Windows MediaPlayer required).

(WARNING: Do not listen if you are easily upset or disturbed by such things. Although there is no foul language, in English anyway, the sounds may be disturbing to some.)

This recording was made by Eugene Safronov, who is an assistant to one of the exorcists in the Russian Orthodox Church. Although he did not assist in this particular case, he was a witness, and has assisted another priest in many other instances.

Exorcisms on the Rise

The ideas of demonic possession and exorcism seem archaic and a peculiar anachronism in the high-tech, scientifically enlightened world of the 21st century. Most rational people regard the notion of demons as superstition. People who in the Middle Ages were thought to be possessed by demons and other evil spirits are now usually considered to be suffering from such brain disorders as Tourette Syndrome, schizophrenia, epilepsy or any number of psychiatric problems. At best, they are people with overactive imaginations under the negative influence of the occult and related media.

Continued...
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HospitallerOffline
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PostPosted: 11-09-2005 16:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to see this thread active again, here's the clinical criteria for "trance & possession disorders" as recognised by the World Health Organisation that I mentioned on page one (about 4 years ago!)

Quote:
F44.3 Trance and possession disorders
Disorders in which there is a temporary loss of the sense of personal identity and full awareness of the surroundings. Include here only trance states that are involuntary or unwanted, occurring outside religious or culturally accepted situations.
Excludes: states associated with:
· acute and transient psychotic disorders ( F23.- )
· organic personality disorder ( F07.0 )
· postconcussional syndrome ( F07.2 )
· psychoactive substance intoxication ( F10-F19 with common fourth character .0)
· schizophrenia ( F20.- )



Online at: http://www3.who.int/icd/vol1htm2003/fr-icd.htm

You have to follow the hyperlinks, firstly "V F00-F99 Mental and behvioural disorders" and then "F40-F48 Neurotic, stress-related and somatoform disorders"
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 17-09-2005 21:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absence Seizure?
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PostPosted: 18-09-2005 13:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although not a diagnosis as such, but rather a phenomenon that is symptomatic or characteristic of certain disorders, absence seizures have been identified as a distinct phenomenon from trance and possession disorder:

Quote:
G40.3 Generalized idiopathic epilepsy and epileptic syndromes
Benign:
· myoclonic epilepsy in infancy
· neonatal convulsions (familial)
Childhood absence epilepsy [pyknolepsy] Epilepsy with grand mal seizures on awakening
Juvenile:
· absence epilepsy
· myoclonic epilepsy [impulsive petit mal]
Nonspecific epileptic seizures:
· atonic
· clonic
· myoclonic
· tonic
· tonic-clonic



Quote:
G40.4 Other generalized epilepsy and epileptic syndromes
Epilepsy with:
· myoclonic absences
· myoclonic-astatic seizures
Infantile spasms
Lennox-Gastaut syndrome
Salaam attacks
Symptomatic early myoclonic encephalopathy
West's syndrome


Quote:
G41.1 Petit mal status epilepticus
Epileptic absence status


To check it out, go to http://www3.who.int/icd/vol1htm2003/fr-icd.htm and choose "VI G00-G99 Diseases of the nervous system" then "G40-G47 Episodic and paroxysmal disorders". From there you can CTRL-F for "absence".

However, I can see the similarities, and the ICD-10 compilers would have perhaps done well to put "Epilepsy" in the "excludes" section of Trance and Possession Disorders (and vice versa). Notwithstanding this, the medical - in particular psychiatric - field is one of the areas were notions such as trance and possession are least likely to be entertained and I reckon that anyone with genuine absence seizures (and therefore one form of epilepsy or antoher) is very very unlikely to be diagnosed under the trance and possession disorders. Indeed someone presenting to a doctor with the symptoms described in the Trance and Possession disorders category is much more likely to be referred initially to a neurologist than to a psychiatrist. Epilepsy and other organic disorders would certainly have to be ruled out before a diagnosis of a functional disorder such as trance or possession disorder could be made safely.
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lordmongroveOffline
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PostPosted: 26-11-2012 13:29    Post subject: possessed or insane Reply with quote

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235669/Hundreds-exorcisms-performed-UK-Asian-communities-treat-people-mental-illnesses.html#ixzz2DFzprqgl

Possession by djinn or mental illness?
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jimv1Offline
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PostPosted: 17-02-2013 10:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even some psychologists can be befuddled by attributing actions to the nature of evil, which to my mind almost puts them in the bracket of exorcists.

However, I came across this research into the nature of chemically-induced altruism or vice.

Quote:
Human beings are highly social creatures. Because of this we are intensely interested in what others are doing, and why. We need to know who is good and bad and therefore who we want to avoid and who we can tolerate.

All of us recognize virtue and vice when we see it, with virtues generally being actions that benefit others and vices entailing selfish acts. The moral philosopher Adam Smith (also the "father" of economics) argued in his 1759 book The Theory of Moral Sentiments that virtue derives from our innately social nature in which we cannot help but share in the joy and pain of those around us. Smith argued that when we do things that cause others pain, we also feel pain. Because our biology causes us to avoid pain, we typically avoid such actions. Similarly, we enjoy pleasure and vicariously experience pleasure when we do something that brings happiness to others. This "fellow-feeling," or what we would now call empathy, is what maintains us in the community of humans. This is a critical requirement for a social creature. Smith was the first to clearly make the case that it is our social nature that motivates human virtue and is the reason why we vilify vice.

For the last ten years my lab has put this Smithian idea to the test by searching for a neurochemical basis for virtue and vice. We have focused on the chemistry behind behaviors because people seldom offer clear explanations for why they are doing what they are doing. Motivations matter because they ascribe meaning to actions. So, we have people make decisions that are virtuous or selfish while measuring their brain activity.

This research has largely confirmed Smith's argument for why humans can be virtuous. We have shown that virtuous behaviors are caused by the brain's release of the neurotransmitter and hormone oxytocin. When oxytocin is high, costly caring and helping behaviors follow. When we inhibit oxytocin release (for example, in experiments where I've administered testosterone to volunteers), virtue wanes and selfishness dominates. Oxytocin release makes us feel empathy and by doing so increases our sensitivity to the feelings of those around us. I recently published an article reviewing these findings





http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-moral-molecule/201102/are-humans-good-or-evil
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