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Blame it all on the Baby Boomers

 
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CochiseOffline
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PostPosted: 18-12-2013 10:06    Post subject: Blame it all on the Baby Boomers Reply with quote

There is a lot of stuff like this in the papers:


Quote:
Their generation fought and died for what they believed in, sacrificed their youth (and their health and sanity) for the greater good, worked hard to build a better world for their children.

They also produced the most pampered, self-indulgent, ungrateful and selfish generation ever to have walked this earth: the Baby Boomers.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2525464/SARAH-VINE-Why-Im-member-Generation-Joyless.html#ixzz2norTqXIZ

This wouldn't at all be part of a Government attempt to jusitify its own (and Brown's) raid on pensions and attacks on te property of senior citizens would it?

For what it is worth, the choices available to young people now are vastly wider than they were when I grew up in the 50's and 60's, and the opportunities for pleasure and indulgence far greater. For example, people talk about 'choosing' a career - in the early 70's when I started work you didn't choose a career, you took what job you could get and that became your career.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 18-12-2013 11:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'm pretty tired of these rather transparent attempts to create some sort of inter-generational warfare. It's not the fault of the baby boomers that people are living decades longer than anyone planned for 50 years ago. Nor is it their fault that globalisation and automation have killed off full employment. Or that the last government's decision to import four million people over the course of a decade has put insane pressure on the supply of housing. Or that successive governments' obsession with having huge numbers of young people doing worthless degrees has made higher education unaffordable for the much smaller group who will truly benefit from it.

Quote:
This wouldn't at all be part of a Government attempt to jusitify its own (and Brown's) raid on pensions and attacks on te property of senior citizens would it?



Yes, I'm quite sure it's part of a wider strategy to (a) cut spending on pensions and/or (b) find a way of taxing property which is disproportionately held by the older generations. There may be good arguments for doing these things but I do wish we could debate them on their merits rather than having a Two Minutes Hate against our parents and grandparents.

Quote:
For what it is worth, the choices available to young people now are vastly wider than they were when I grew up in the 50's and 60's, and the opportunities for pleasure and indulgence far greater. For example, people talk about 'choosing' a career - in the early 70's when I started work you didn't choose a career, you took what job you could get and that became your career.


Yes, but the flipside is that you weren't expected to work for free as an "intern" for a few years just to make it into a career-type job. That said, I agree that many under 30s seem to have an unrealistic attitude to and expectations of work which I blame to a great extent on the educational system which has given them a great deal of often misplaced confidence. With the exception of a few months of horrible office politics I've generally been pretty happy in the various jobs that I've had but I do think this is largely down to my original expectations. I've always expected a certain amount of boredom, frustration and stress at work, but that's why it's called work and not leisure.

However as I've said on one of the other threads the really big generational issue is housing. My parents' generation could afford a nice house on an average wage. Under 40s, even those on very good salaries, cannot unless they happened to buy before the market went crazy. There is no realistic alternative in the rental market now that council housing is only available to those in desperate need and private rentals tend to be short term and insecure. Cheap iPads and plasma TVs don't make up for having a suitable, secure home.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 18-12-2013 12:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mail is attacking a large dection of its own readership, but then its always operated on the level of low cunning.
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CochiseOffline
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PostPosted: 19-12-2013 08:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, but the flipside is that you weren't expected to work for free as an "intern" for a few years just to make it into a career-type job.


No but you might have to work for several years for peanuts as an apprentice or articled clerk in order the 'learn your trade' and if for any reason you left in that time it was worthless. There was no minimum wage back then.

I sort of agree about the housing, although as I've said before the reality was that someone like my father, who was on a middle management sort of wage, had to spend pretty much every penny on buying the house and we were left with precious little. Any luxuries - like Christmas presents - tended to be what Dad could find at the last knockings on Christmas Eve. Of course my Mum didn't work - that would have been an admission of failure.

Things got much better for us as the 60's developed. I still remember my first big Xmas present when I was 7 - in fact I still have bits of it. We even had carpets everywhere by 1970.

Not everything is directly comparable between now and 50 years ago, nevertheless on balance I'd say things are still better now and people should be fighting to keep what they have got and to rectify the new set of injustices, but the Government seems determined to do a bait-and-switch on us. Democracy only works if people are active democrats - its not bloody X-Factor.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 19-12-2013 18:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No but you might have to work for several years for peanuts as an apprentice or articled clerk in order the 'learn your trade' and if for any reason you left in that time it was worthless.


Yes, but you generally had a secure trade or profession after that. There was an understanding on both sides that the trainee worked for low wages but ended up a skilled worker. That "contract" has broken down with the internship system. Interns often learn very little of value and there is rarely a job at the end of it.

Quote:
I sort of agree about the housing, although as I've said before the reality was that someone like my father, who was on a middle management sort of wage, had to spend pretty much every penny on buying the house and we were left with precious little.


Yes, and my parents struggled also a few decades later - but they were still able to to purchase a nice family home on one average (if that) salary and a bit of help from my mum's part time work. This is now completely beyond the reach of young people today, even those on salaries which my parents could only dream of. In London, 2 bed flats in grotty areas of Zone 2 are being sold for £700K plus. It's completely crazy and not remotely comparable with the experience of previous generations.
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SHAYBARSABEOffline
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PostPosted: 19-12-2013 19:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cochise wrote:
Not everything is directly comparable between now and 50 years ago, nevertheless on balance I'd say things are still better now and people should be fighting to keep what they have got and to rectify the new set of injustices, but the Government seems determined to do a bait-and-switch on us. Democracy only works if people are active democrats - its not bloody X-Factor.


Well, yes. But since the government is bought and paid for, I'd say economic inequality is the big problem. We're slaves.

But, we were slaves before WWII: the 50 years or so of "prosperity" after that time was unique, and may never be seen again.
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CochiseOffline
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PostPosted: 20-12-2013 08:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree its going that way, but people seem disinclined to do anything to actually stop it, they appear to - in the main - uncritically accept any propaganda the government (of whatever colour) chooses to throw at them.

Democracy is far from perfect, but as far as I know it is the only system that gives people a reasonable input into the way they are governed, and in this country for example it brought us the Attlee government who more than anything were responsible for the fairer society of the 50's and 60's. (compared to say the 30's) .

Subsequent governments coupled with straightforward human greed have undone most of the good parts of that society, but we can still repair it if we act.

Which brings us back to the shameless campaign against the previous generations. Unless people are prepared to think for themselves then they will indeed end up as slaves - freedom has to be jealously guarded, not taken for granted.

The generations that fought in WW2 and endured the Cold War knew that - it has subsequently been forgotten in the generally pleasant lives that most people have in this country surrounded as they are by a wealth of cheap luxury goods (and the 'entertainment' thereby gained). They don't even realise that in many cases these goodies are obtained at the expense of our own jobs.
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UrvogelOffline
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PostPosted: 20-12-2013 21:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quake42 wrote:
That said, I agree that many under 30s seem to have an unrealistic attitude to and expectations of work which I blame to a great extent on the educational system which has given them a great deal of often misplaced confidence.


It's more along the lines that you get told that if you work hard, do well in school and get good grades you will get a good job. Then, after nearly two decades of working your ass off to do well and get brilliant qualifications, you find out that getting a good job is about who you know, not what you know, and despite all your hard work you still end up with a job a monkey could do.

The job situation for young people is an absolute joke. It's a constant Catch-22 of need experience for a job/need a job for experience. Combined with how difficult it is to get on the property ladder, it's just creating a generation of frustrated workers with no hope of digging themselves out of the rut.
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CochiseOffline
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PostPosted: 21-12-2013 11:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

It always was like that except you spent less time in school and didn't have a student loan.

But I can understand your frustration. Use it.

Creating false expectation has been a method used by the Government from Heath onwards - and particularly by the Major and Blair regimes - to keep people from becoming politically active.

You can now see most of what you were told was lies. But try and see through their misdirection and work out who is actually to blame .

Personally I'd start with multinational corporations and the oil cartel. You can do little better than to remember the old adage of follow the money. And I don't mean pensioners who have a slightly more secure life then you do, I mean the people who are really coining it and avoiding their taxes into the bargain. But don't overlook the small mean people who glory in a little power over others - they can be just as bad overall because there are a lot more of them.

Incidentally I hire based on whether people show enthusiasm for the job - well, mainly. Paper qualifications cut no ice with me, largely because I have very few myself. But by doing so I lay myself open to being sued by anyone who has better qualifications and thinks they have been passed over unfairly. Which is why I tend to be charitable and blame the rule-makers and the lobby groups behind them rather than the individual carrying out the rules. Unless they prove themselves to be one of the band of small mean people referred to in the previous paragraph.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 22-12-2013 22:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

A particularly unpleasant - and badly written - contribution to the Two Minutes Hate against the old from the charming Chris Huhne here:

Quote:
Someone needs to fight the selfish, short-sighted old

The cost of pandering to pensioners means we are penalising our young in relation to education, healthcare and housing

‘The Help to Buy scheme will get some people on the housing ladder by pushing others off it, unless supply increases.' Illustration by Andrzej Krauze
The interests of the young are at risk of being marginalised, while the old ride proud. It is the new political dividing line that no one acknowledges. British government in the modern age requires middle-aged ministers, but they kowtow to the prejudices of the elderly. This is not just unfair to the young. It is also a potential disaster for our future.


Continues:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/22/someone-needs-fight-selfish-old
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MythopoeikaOffline
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PostPosted: 22-12-2013 23:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody take Chris Huhne seriously these days?
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rynner2Online
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PostPosted: 22-12-2013 23:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mythopoeika wrote:
Does anybody take Chris Huhne seriously these days?

I damn well hope not!
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CochiseOffline
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PostPosted: 23-12-2013 09:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old fought for what they got, and the generations immediately after them - including mine - protested on the streets if they were maltreated.

I'm sure the government - any government - prefers the current generation who seem disinclined to protest about anything other than fracking. (Which to the government is probably neither here nor there, they'll be long gone by the time the oil profits run out).

But they may be in for a shock before long. Outrage over food banks and so on is beginning to build. On the other hand perhaps they - or more likely their handlers - anticipate this and that is why they are ramping up their misdirection right now.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 23-12-2013 09:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On the other hand perhaps they - or more likely their handlers - anticipate this and that is why they are ramping up their misdirection right now.


Yes, it feels very contrived to me. We saw this four or five years ago with a rash of carefully planted stories about "gold-plated" public sector pensions - clearly intended to enrage private sector workers and make it politically easier to cut public sector retirement benefits. It struck me at the time as quite cynical and this just seems a rerun of that.
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