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Heavens above: a global globe paradox?
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feinmanOffline
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 17:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

'THE 1905 WELSH REVIVAL LIGHTS:

Other than corpse candles there are other examples of apparently supernatural light phenomena, such as those observed in the Barmouth Area throughout 1905. This phenomena seemed to be focused around Mary Jones (a middle-aged Methodist lay-preacher), during a major religious revival. Strange lights would often appear at places she was about to preach, and others were reported to hover over the homes of those who found (or reaffirmed) their faith in those days of heady Christian fervour. The lights were either reported to resemble star-like bodies or balls and ovals of light, or glowing arches, bars, and luminous forms "suspended" upon incandescent "arms". The lights were generally undynamic in regards to motion, but several reports refer to lights making jumping motions, rushing or coming together (sometimes with a loud peel of thunder), or balls of fire rising from the ground and bursting. Other visions of a more conventional religious nature were also reported. Eventually, the lights vanished as suddenly as they came, leaving Mary Jones to die in obscurity in 1937 [18].Later commentators (such as Paul Devereux) have commented on the heavy concentration of earth-faulting in the Barmouth region. Could these events be attributable to "earthlight" activity? Could even the religious revival itself have been caused by an alteration in the geophysical/electrical environment, which (though subtle neural influences) have induced various "mystical" experiences amongst certain susceptible people [19]. More down-to-earth commentators suggest the events were staged hoaxes using lanterns. As with all historical Balls Of Light little can now be ascertained with certainty at this late date.'

If I were you, I'd search UFO sighting databases for "arch" or "arches". Not saying it has anything to do with UFOs, though.
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ErmintrudeOffline
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 19:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

All interesting responses. The apparent size of the phenomenon was huge, relative to the sky, and yet it really appeared to be very high (I based this impression at least in part from the way in which the arches closer to us seemed straighter).

I take on board the point that it can't have been at the true zenith point, because it wasn't immediately overhead. We were looking towards it at an angle, and I'd estimate that it must have been, say, more than 60 degrees up from the horizon, but certainly not 90.

IamSundog, I know that the lines of latitude and longitude are a human construct, just like any other cartesian coordinate system, but I'm still struck by the impression that if what I saw is >not< utterly unique history, might it have inspired cartographers and geographers to use such a line marking convention when developing representations of the globe? I mean from both perspectives, looking up and out from the world (astronomical/astrological star mapping), and down from above, for navigation and discovering the world.

I've also just had a really strange thought- this may be of no significance, or of every importance, but,,,, I know the world is measured as rotating at what's described as being an angle of 23.4 degrees (I'm not entirely sure what this angle is relative to, but some of the extremely-clever people on this forum might be able to explain it better than a wiki entry). I'm wondering if the apparent angle up from the horizon that I believed I could see the centre of this effect was at 90-23=77degrees? I'm reminded of the convention that's observed on maps where there are true poles and magnetic poles, and that's not quite what I'm thinking of, but do you follow the fractured idea that's suggesting itself to me as to why there could have been a difference between the centre >not< being directly overhead? This may be a total red herring, but just an idea.

Also, the effect didn't look like any kind of smoke or launch- it was far too big and glowing and....shaped. And stable. When I'm describing the arch limbs as being like trees, I just mean that they were definitely not perfectly-smooth in shape. They seemed to be like a ghostly zig-zag, almost like pale frozen lightning seen through a window, with an internal brightness that seemed internal to the effect.

The centre was brighter than the curved limbs, but not much.

Earthlights? Certainly intriguing, but this was effectively out-of-this world (doesn't the geo-generated proposition regarding this phenomenon presume that such effects are decidedly earth-bound).

I'm familiar with crepuscular clouds, and (as I said) am lucky to have actually seen the aurora borealis in Canada. This was nothing like any of these effects (and similarly it wasn't not insects: this was huge and high- or, I will concede, it certainly appeared to be such from our location).
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MythopoeikaOnline
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 19:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an idea...but perhaps what you saw was an aurora-like phenomenon, where the ionised particles arranged themselves according to the magnetic flows around the planet?
You can see this kind of magnetic flow or channel by looking at videos of flare activity on the Sun (i.e., like that).
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 22:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ermintrude wrote:
I know that the lines of latitude and longitude are a human construct, just like any other cartesian coordinate system, but I'm still struck by the impression that if what I saw is >not< utterly unique history, might it have inspired cartographers and geographers to use such a line marking convention when developing representations of the globe? I mean from both perspectives, looking up and out from the world (astronomical/astrological star mapping), and down from above, for navigation and discovering the world.

Longitude relates to time, and latitude to distance from Equator to Pole. I don't really see that heavenly visions were required to think of them when suitable mathematical ideas have been around for millenia.

How else could you map out a rotating globe? A square-grid system would soon run into problems!
Quote:

I've also just had a really strange thought- this may be of no significance, or of every importance, but,,,, I know the world is measured as rotating at what's described as being an angle of 23.4 degrees (I'm not entirely sure what this angle is relative to, but some of the extremely-clever people on this forum might be able to explain it better than a wiki entry). I'm wondering if the apparent angle up from the horizon that I believed I could see the centre of this effect was at 90-23=77degrees? I'm reminded of the convention that's observed on maps where there are true poles and magnetic poles, and that's not quite what I'm thinking of, but do you follow the fractured idea that's suggesting itself to me as to why there could have been a difference between the centre >not< being directly overhead? This may be a total red herring, but just an idea.

The angle you refer to is known as the Obliquity of the Ecliptic, more commonly referred to as Axial Tilt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obliquity_of_the_ecliptic

But I'm not sure if this has any relevence to your vision. The Earth's axis is fixed in space (in the short term), so the off-zenith position you suggest would correspond to the pole of the Earth's orbit at a certain time each day, but as far as I know that doesn't correspond to any real object, just as the Earth's rotational pole doesn't correspond to any real object (although Polaris comes close, for some purposes). So these 'centres' don't refer to anything other than the rotations themselves.

I don't suppose this gets us much furtherer. Just don't ask about precession either, until you've wrapped your head around the foregoing! Cool
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SHAYBARSABEOffline
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PostPosted: 11-02-2014 18:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ermintrude wrote:
I'm familiar with crepuscular clouds, and (as I said) am lucky to have actually seen the aurora borealis in Canada. This was nothing like any of these effects (and similarly it wasn't not insects: this was huge and high- or, I will concede, it certainly appeared to be such from our location).


The aurora borealis can be quite spectacular, and I'm going to imagine that you saw it or a part of it. Here are some links:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthpicturegalleries/3852022/Aurora-borealis-in-pictures.html?image=1
http://s577.photobucket.com/user/rover35si/media/Aurora-Borealis-over-the-Sea.jpg.html
http://dailysky.yakohl.com/pop.php?pid=978
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IamSundogOffline
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PostPosted: 11-02-2014 19:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ermintrude wrote:
if what I saw is >not< utterly unique history, might it have inspired cartographers and geographers to use such a line marking convention when developing representations of the globe?

If you saw something in space, outside our atmosphere, then yes it might have provided inspiration for 15th century (or whenever) cartographers to adopt a longitude-lattitude coordinate system. Although as Rynner points out, there's really no alternative system for a sphere with an axis of rotation, so they would have devised it without such inspiration. And there's no known structure or phenomenon in space corresponding to what you saw. And it's not visible up there generally - you saw it just the one time. The entire sky has been photographed in every wavelength for a century by professional and amateur astronomers and nobody's seen this thing. So the most likely explanation is that it was something transient in our atmosphere. Some kind of experiment or mishap in the ionosphere might look nothing like an exhaust trail, could be 50-100 miles up and extend hundreds of miles across and persist for a long time.
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ErmintrudeOffline
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PostPosted: 12-02-2014 00:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

IamSundog wrote:

If you saw something in space, outside our atmosphere, then yes it might have provided inspiration for 15th century (or whenever) cartographers


This seriously made me wonder at the time. My reality, or at least an experienced visual perception thereof, acting as a an unexpected yet totally-familiar backreference to what I'd previously believed could only be an abstract overlay upon a pre-medieval geographer's proto-globe.

Is there a word for this concept? Normally-unseen foundations or constants that actually do exist in reality, but are conventionally thought of as being fictional? This effect just hung there, asserting it's massive presence with an elemental assurance of an eternal force of nature, it's impossibility compensated for by it's inarguable grandeur.

Again, I really don't think it was the aurora borealis, in the conventionally-represented (but rarely-witnessed) sheet/ripple/spear variety, which must have scared the utter wits out of the ancients. There are atmospheric layers and outermost-space layers, this was an extremely high effect (or again, I concede, it certainly appeared to be)

It may well have been auroral, in that it appeared to look very like energised particles of light, but the apparently equal-spacing of the limbs/arms is a factor that retrospectively interests me the most. I just wish I'd had a camera with me (although back then I just wouldn't have).

I might have to draw a picture: this needs pinning-down
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AmoradalaOffline
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PostPosted: 17-02-2014 11:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is very compelling evidence that we are existing within a computer simulation.
Below is a paragraph from this article,

http://www.insidescience.org/content/what-if-reality-was-really-just-sim-universe/871

Savage and his colleagues assume that any future simulators would use some of the same techniques current scientists use to run simulations, with the same constraints. The future simulators, Savage indicated, would map their universe on a mathematical lattice or grid, consisting of points and lines. This would not be an everyday grid but a "hypercube" consisting of four dimensions, three for space, and one to represent points in time.

Perhaps this is the 'grid' that you glimpsed ?
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SameOldVardoger
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PostPosted: 17-02-2014 12:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might it have been something like the Norwegian Spiral?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sof_QK1z4b4

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemonitor/lightsnorway_REXFEATURES.jpg
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ErmintrudeOffline
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PostPosted: 22-02-2014 23:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try and visualise what I saw via this artistic representation I sort of stumbled upon.

What I could see was much, much bigger. Across and around the sky, with what looked like equally-spaced lines (brighter, maybe, towards the centre, and especially where they converged at the....top).

http://i.imgur.com/JrfUSHI.jpg

I don't think it was 'the Matrix', shining through, or any other ultra-gnotic penetration of some supra-dimensional fourth wall. Also, I doubt it was anything quite like the supposed Nordic spirals, which to me have the whiff of vestigal earthling faded super-power nationalistic posturing via magic lantern shows (my favoured explanation for very many Unidentified Flying Oddities....the end of the Cold War appears to have reduced also the occurences of War of the Worlds fly-bys....please tell me that simple correlation has been tabled elsewhere?).

I think what I saw was some form of extremely high-altitude fundamental auroral astronomical effect, that others have witnessed before, but for whatever reason is extremely rare. Consider some form of solar/magnetic/global conjunction, at a frequency of repetition that is on a cycle of almost-never.

But I hope I see it again.
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uair01Offline
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PostPosted: 22-02-2014 23:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it have been Zodiacal light:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiacal_light
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gegenschein
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ErmintrudeOffline
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PostPosted: 23-02-2014 00:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doubt that it was quite the same as this zodiacal light, as it's a ecliptic stripe, not a top-downwards multiple tracks effect.

However- this sounds intriguingly-resonant...maybehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kordylewski_cloud
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ErmintrudeOffline
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PostPosted: 21-03-2014 21:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

www.redorbit.com/news/space/1113099805/zebra-stripes-in-van-allen-radiation-belt-032014/

[img]www.redorbit.com/media/uploads/2014/03/radiation-belts-617x416.jpg[/img]

Quote:
Data from NASA’s twin Van
Allen Probes has led to the
discovery of a new, potentially
dangerous zebra-striped
structure located in Earth’s inner
radiation belt, according to new
research appearing in
Wednesday’s edition of the
journal Nature.
In the paper, lead author
Aleksandr Ukhorskiy of the Johns
Hopkins Applied Physics
Laboratory (APL) and his
colleagues explain that the Van
Allen Probes Ion Composition
Experiment (RBSPICE) located
the persistent structure, which
was comprised of highly
energized electrons that could
endanger humans in space.
In addition, the zebra-striped
formation could also disrupt
low-earth navigation and
communication satellites, officials
from the US space agency
explained. The structure was
produced by the planet’s slow
rotation, which experts had
previously believed was unable
to impact the motion of high-
speed radiation belt particles.
“It is because of the
unprecedented resolution of our
energetic particle experiment,
RBSPICE, that we now
understand that the inner belt
electrons are, in fact, always
organized in zebra patterns,”
said Ukhorskiy. “Furthermore,
our modeling clearly identifies
Earth’s rotation as the
mechanism creating these
patterns. It is truly humbling, as
a theoretician, to see how
quickly new data can change our
understanding of physical
properties.”
The tilt in Earth’s magnetic field
axis causes its rotation to
generate a weak, oscillating
electric field permeating
throughout the entire inner
radiation belt, Ukhorskiy
explained. He compared the
electron populations of the inner
belt to a viscous fluid, and said
that the global operations would
slowly stretch and fold like taffy,
resulting in the striped pattern
that extends from above the
atmosphere to approximately
8,000 miles above the Earth’s
surface.
According to NASA officials, the
Van Allen radiation belts “are
dynamic doughnut-shaped
regions” that surround our
planet high above the
atmosphere. They are comprised
of high-energy electrons and
ions that are trapped by the
Earth’s magnetic field, and solar
activity affects the radiation levels
throughout the belts.
These solar storms and related
activity originating from the sun
can ebb and flow, the agency
added. Radiation levels can
dramatically increase during
active conditions, which can
generate hazardous space
weather conditions that could
harm orbiting spacecraft and
place astronauts in danger. The
goal of the Van Allen Probes is
to better understand exactly how
and why the radiation levels in
these belts change with time.
“These findings could have
implications for those who model
space weather and those who
design and operate navigation
and communication satellites as
well as spacecraft used for
national security,” said study co-
author and New Jersey Institute
of Technology physics professor
Louis Lanzerotti.
“It is amazing how Earth’s space
environment, including the
radiation belts, continue to
surprise us even after we have
studied them for over 50 years,”
he added.
“Our understanding
of the complex structures of the
belts, and the processes behind
the belts’ behaviors, continues to
grow, all of which contribute to
the eventual goal of providing
accurate space weather
modeling and helping designers
to build communication systems
and spacecraft that can
withstand the highly energized
particles in earth’s radiation
belt.”
(my bold)

Interesting. That which is all around us, and should be known of, is new and unseen. Or is it?
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PeripartOffline
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PostPosted: 22-03-2014 16:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ermintrude, you couldn't resize that large picture a touch, could you? It's twice as wide as my screen, and has made reading the text on this page quite a cumbersome task!
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ErmintrudeOffline
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PostPosted: 23-03-2014 09:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shall do so, as soon as I'm sitting in front of a real computer (as opposed to doing it on an unsmart phone).

Apologies- I wasn't aware it was so big. That's oddly convergent with the phenomenon itself, as witnessed.

This recent astral zebraform info is interesting, especially since it indicates there are still massive gaps in our understandings of the planet.
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