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Dyatlov pass incident
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philomathOffline
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PostPosted: 24-02-2014 22:17    Post subject: clues to the last 4 bodies Reply with quote

from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book....

chipped conifer sprigs formed a path from the cedar tree towards the ravine
looked as if somebody detruncated and dragged a few firs or spruces
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philomathOffline
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PostPosted: 24-02-2014 22:42    Post subject: 3 rocky stripes between campsite and forest Reply with quote

from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book...

3 or more rocky stripes parallel to each other traverse the way between campsite and forest


Last edited by philomath on 24-02-2014 22:49; edited 1 time in total
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philomathOffline
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PostPosted: 24-02-2014 22:44    Post subject: the second flashlight Reply with quote

from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book...

a hundred meters down from the tent there was a turned on flashlight with dead battery
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 24-02-2014 22:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

joeygirl wrote:
Did Yubin give any insight into the state of mind of the others? Would he have noticed any tensions?


My understanding is that Yubin was well-acquainted with most of the expedition members and had been on at least one earlier expedition with them. Zina and Dubinina both noted sadness at his turning back; one of them (I forget which one ...) noted the females were particularly sad to see him go back.

My guess is yes - Yubin would have been a credible observer of psychological stresses up to the point he left. Unless there's something in (e.g.) an interview I've not yet found, Yubin didn't indicate any tensions or frictions.

NOTE: Yubin died in 2013.

On the other hand ... It wasn't until after Yubin had turned back that the party's journal entries start noting slower-than-desired progress, etc., so I have no reason to believe he ever witnessed any issues arising as they continued to the pass.

The plan as of the morning of 1 February was pretty evidently not the same as the plan as of the morning of 31 January. This change of plans no doubt involved discussion, and the discussion may have involved debate or dispute.
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 24-02-2014 23:02    Post subject: Re: igor dyatlov body Reply with quote

philomath wrote:
from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book....

apparently Dyatlov died laying face down in the snow but rescuers found him lying on his back ... somebody flipped him over after rigor mortis (checking he was alive?)


I call 'BS' on this ... There's nothing to indicate Dyatlov expired in any orientation other than the supine position in which his body was discovered.
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philomathOffline
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PostPosted: 24-02-2014 23:06    Post subject: cameras Reply with quote

4 cameras found:

camera zorky: 34 frames filmed - Krivonishenko (with tripod and broken filter)
camera zorky: 27 frames filmed - Slobodin
camera zorky: 27 frames filmed - Zolotarev?
brand of 4th camera? - not Dyatlov
5th camera - did it exist?

and 6 rolls of films + single frames from presumed 7th roll


Last edited by philomath on 11-03-2014 19:31; edited 1 time in total
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 24-02-2014 23:14    Post subject: Re: 3 rocky stripes between campsite and forest Reply with quote

philomath wrote:
from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book...

3 or more rocky stripes parallel to each other traverse the way between campsite and forest


Check the photo at:

http://infodjatlov.narod.ru/fg5/imagepages/image31.htm

There are rocky patches all over the place, including the slope down which they fled.

There were plenty of places someone could have fallen and injured themselves on the way down.
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 24-02-2014 23:15    Post subject: Re: igor dyatlov body Reply with quote

philomath wrote:
from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book....

apparently Dyatlov died laying face down in the snow but rescuers found him lying on his back ... somebody flipped him over after rigor mortis (checking he was alive?)


I call 'BS' on this ... There's nothing to indicate Dyatlov expired in any orientation other than the supine position in which his body was discovered.
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 25-02-2014 02:34    Post subject: Re: the second flashlight Reply with quote

philomath wrote:
from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book...

a hundred meters down from the tent there was a turned on flashlight with dead battery




They're wrong on that ... Rolling Eyes

The most specific documentation for the location of the 'non-tent flashlight' is a sketched diagram or map illustrating the search party's path of probing during the first phase of search / recovery (late February into March). On this diagram the location of the flashlight is shown as circa 400m down-slope from the tent - just before one gets to the boundary of the scrub vegetation zone.

This location was confirmed by one of the soldiers who'd been among the searchers (a Syunikaev) in 2009.

The only additional info that Syunikaev offered about the flashlight was that he didn't remember it being a Chinese-made light like the one found atop the tent.
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Ringo_Offline
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PostPosted: 25-02-2014 08:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now comes the movie, based on a true story ect etc
Youtube: Devil's Pass Trailer
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philomathOffline
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PostPosted: 25-02-2014 20:41    Post subject: tent Reply with quote

http://www.allmystery.de/bilder/km49817/17
I don't know how much reliable


Last edited by philomath on 27-02-2014 21:26; edited 1 time in total
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 26-02-2014 01:34    Post subject: Re: tent Reply with quote

philomath wrote:
http://www.allmystery.de/bilder/km49817/17
how don't know how much reliable


The diagram you cited is a relatively recent addition to the Dyatlov Pass corpus. To the best of my knowledge, it was created within the last 4 or 5 years. I can't be sure owing to the destruction of my primary workstation in last year's fire.

As I recall, I first saw it on a western European site (German? Swiss?). However, I've never been able to pin down its origin. The original version of the diagram included Russian text explaining its contents. I'll have to do some rummaging to locate the text, so I'll post it later.

That diagram represents an attempt to estimate the locations and sizes of the various holes in the Dyatlov tent by examination and analysis of the original photos.

Those photos were taken at the Ivdel police headquarters in spring of 1959. The wrecked tent was hung on a clothesline and over some chairs in a room at the police building, and a photographer took some cursory snapshots. These shots were of the side of the tent facing down toward the valley into which the party fled - i.e., the down-slope side and the side most exposed to the wind.

No photo was taken of the other (up-slope) side of the tent, even though some notes indicated there were one or more holes on that side as well.

For whatever reason (probably the room's layout) the photographer couldn't or wouldn't get a single shot spanning the entire tent. The results were two or more photographs, which in various permutations can be found on multiple sites. For example, a composite of the two most commonly seen shots can be accessed at:

http://dverisi.narod.ru/1047pX.jpg

NOTE: What with all the excerpted close-ups and annotated versions strewn around the 'Net over the years, I've never been clear on exactly how many different photos were originally taken.

Anyway ... As the story goes ... A tailor or seamstress happened to be visiting the police station at the time, in relation to some uniform sewing work.* He / she took a look at the tent and declared the cuts inspected had been done from the inside. Up until that point the investigators were still entertaining theories involving cuts from the outside (e.g., intruders). As a result of the tailor / seamstress's claim, the tent was packed off to a forensic lab for further study on the damages.

*NOTE: Accounts vary on the gender and profession of the person(s) who claimed the cuts were made from inside. Some claim it was a male tailor, and some claim it was a female seamstress. A few accounts mention a laundress - sometimes alone and sometimes in conjunction with a tailor.

Even though the investigators directed close scrutiny to the tent evidence, the quality of the forensic analysis done at the time has long been a subject of dispute and even ridicule.

Whoever generated this diagram wanted to see how decent an inventory of the tent damage could be reconstructed from the surviving photos.

I'll post the translated text from the original version of the diagram when I find it ...
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EnolaGaiaOffline
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PostPosted: 26-02-2014 01:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

It didn't take as long as I feared to locate the original caption text for that diagram ...

Here's my translation. Bits in square brackets are my tweaks for readability in English.

References to the chair relate to estimating lengths / distances. The chair was presumed to be a factory product conforming to Soviet standards, and this presumption is the basis for using the chair as a scale for estimating the holes' sizes.

Quote:


(Text above the diagram ...)

Knowing that using the width of the chair back as a ruler [one] can try to measure all visible damage [to the side of the] tent facing the photographer as well as their location.

The result of this operation can be seen in the diagram presented below.

Immediately [one] should stipulate that despite the desire for accuracy [the] inevitable result contains the error associated with the difference in scale in photographs [of the tent] and uncertainty [about] the correction coefficient in the transition from [one] photograph to [the next; another].

(Diagram Graphic)

(Text below the diagram ...)


[This is an] isometric view of [the] rectangular tent [used by the] group Igor Djatlova, indicating sections of the right (from the entrance) roof slope. [I.e., the sloped tent roof as seen to the right when facing the tent's entrance.]

[The] drawing is made proportionally; beside the tent for clarity [is] depicted [the] male physique [of] Yuri Doroshenko in standing and sitting positions.

[The] dashed lines indicate the length of [incisions / slits] in the ["sidewall"].

Bold solid [lines indicate] short incisions made clearly for a purpose other than [making long cuts; achieving length].

The approximate dimensions [are as follows]:

"a" = 25 cm

"b" = 26 cm

"c" = 32 cm

"d" = 34 cm

"i" [presumably / supposedly / conceivably slit length is] 6.0 - 6.5 cm

"f" = 16.5 cm, [this slit was made by Slobtsov on ...] 26 February 1959.

"g" - slit of indefinite length, as original photograph [of] it obscures wrapped tarp, about [it one] can only say that its length is [not] less than 19 cm and not more than 72 cm.

"v" = 14.5 cm

"u" = 13 cm

In view of the poor quality of the original images shown and measured, not all short cuts, especially [those far distant] from the entrance of the tent [are shown; are described].

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philomathOffline
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PostPosted: 26-02-2014 16:40    Post subject: Re: igor dyatlov body Reply with quote

EnolaGaia wrote:
philomath wrote:
from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book....

apparently Dyatlov died laying face down in the snow but rescuers found him lying on his back ... somebody flipped him over after rigor mortis (checking he was alive?)


I call 'BS' on this ... There's nothing to indicate Dyatlov expired in any orientation other than the supine position in which his body was discovered.


from Irina & Vlad Lobatchev and Amanda Bosworth book...
...ice was on Igor's face and under his chin, indicating that he lay face down in the snow for a while and melted it with his breath. But rescuers found him lying on his back. It is impossible to dye lying on your back, holding hands clenched into fist in front of yourself. In the dead body. muscles relax and do not support raised limbs anymore; so Igor's arms were supposed to fall to the side. Clearly, someone flipped him over soon after his corpse had developed rigor mortis, and his body froze stone-hard in that position.


Last edited by philomath on 27-02-2014 21:25; edited 1 time in total
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philomathOffline
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PostPosted: 26-02-2014 17:10    Post subject: Re: autopsies Reply with quote

EnolaGaia wrote:
philomath wrote:
how competent and experienced was the doctor who executed the autopsy? do I recall correctly that they were 2 different doctors for the first 5 bodies and then for the other 4?


The autopsies were done by appointed medical examiners, not just any doctor.

I'm not certain if the same doctor(s) performed the autopsies on the first batch of bodies versus the last four (not found until 3 months after the incident).


Forensic expert Boris Vozrozhdenny and Ivan Paptev performed autopsy of the first 5 bodies in March in Ivdel.
In May forensic expert Boris Vozrozhdenny in presence of Genrietta Eliseevna Churkina (a she) - expert-criminalist (she also examined the tent)and prosecutor criminalist Lev Ivanov Nikitich and pathologist Gants performed the forensic examination of the last 4 bodies in Ivdel. Later Gants carried out histological tests on tissues of the 5.


Last edited by philomath on 27-02-2014 23:24; edited 1 time in total
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