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Sandy Hook shooting 'was staged': Debunkers wanted
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 09-08-2014 12:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post deleted (personal reasons).
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Bigfoot73Offline
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PostPosted: 30-09-2014 16:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Veterans Today might have a rather iffy track record but it has recently been promoting the work of Wolfgang Halbig. He is a school safety instructor who aired some cogent suspicions about the incident and is now claiming to have in his possession a copy of the 12000 page script for the exercise. At that length he could be forgiven for not putting it all on the web though he really ought to get some of it online ( unless he's just scared of TPTB of course).
He is claiming it was all an exercise, that hundreds of local citizens played roles in the cause of gun control ( Connecticut being probably the most liberal state in America), that neither the victims nor Adam Lanza actually existed and that the school closed down in 2009.
He also claims to have supporting testimony from law enforcement professionals and perhaps crucially there are no debunkers shooting this down. There's much more to it than just the Tweets and the photo of the evacuated pupils, there are photos of that notorious pic being staged. Definitely worth checking out.
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 30-09-2014 17:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's unfair to judge a man by the company he keeps, so I looked into Mr Halbig's claims for myself. He's plenty of supporters but some serious heavyweight opponents such as this guy.

If he has the docs he claims, he should put them OL as soon as possible, so we can all have a squizz.
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Bigfoot73Offline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2014 06:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
he should put them OL as soon as possible,


Completely agree, he's probably under all sorts of pressure, cops worried about their pension rights etc., maybe he's awestruck by the potential political ramifications. Still, no laws were actually broken so they are going to be far less than if this was a genuinely sinister incident.
Hernadez' refutations are rather cursory. The police statement he cites may not seem too improbable but there are plenty of others such as several officers claiming to have entered the school via a smashed in window where none of them followed training procedure and broke down all the glass and the adjacent door wasn't locked.
Just because Hernandez once phoned in one corpse as Dead Right There doesn't mean much, had the Sandy Hook cops even found all the bodies in that 11 minutes since the shootings were called in on 911, let alone conclusively ascertained death.
It may not be unusual for ambulances to park some distance away but Halbig produced photos showing them boxed in by empty parked cars, which does seem anomalous.
Other police statements allege they told children emerging from rooms with alleged bodies in them to return to those rooms and wait. It seems the script didn't run to faking every last police statement, perhaps the cops thought they could do it better (?!)
He nitpicks over the helicopter ambulances, but this is a small town suburban school, there must have been plenty of landing space. He suggests there may not have been many available, but why send none at all?
He admits to knowing nothing of the FBI report, he really should have apprised himself of it: it took an exceptional time to be released, 64 pages out of 175 were completely redacted and the remainder partially so - nothing like that has ever happened before. It has just released it's crime stats for Connecticut for the period, showing no murders at all in Sandy Hook.
He omits many points, such as Lanza allegedly firing 154 rounds in a crowded school yet killing only 26 and wounding none.

Aside from the alleged script that FBI report needs explaining. Halbig is in the perhaps unenviable position of possessing lock stock and barrel smoking gun evidence I don't think he's conjured up that script, he hasn't launched a flashy campaign and doesn't seem to be making any money out of it all.
I suspect he's preparing the ground for his disclosure, he 's a thorough type and it's quite a cat to be letting out of the bag.
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2014 18:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone can deconstruct an official account of something -- as is proven by thousands of internet 'suspicious minds', seemingly every minute of every day -- but it's actually constructing a more credible and evidenced alternative that counts.

All this fiddling and fannying around with hypotheticals and what-abouts and "shoulda-coulda-woulda"s gets us nowhere in the long run. If this guy has the goods, then let him deliver. That's as far as my interest goes.

Apart from my initial poser about the discrepantly-timestamped tweets, which I note no-one has yet attempted to explain.
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kamalktkOffline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2014 22:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

garrick92 wrote:

Apart from my initial poser about the discrepantly-timestamped tweets, which I note no-one has yet attempted to explain.

I know nothing about Twitter but it's probably showing the local time of the tweeter. So a tweet from someone identifying themselves as GMT-8 (west coast of US) appears "before" the event, which happened in the GMT-5 (east coast of US) time zone.

On top of that, it's probably showing the time based on a self identified time zone. Hotmail thinks I live in GMT-12 for instance.
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2014 23:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, something similar occurred to me (Hotmail thinks I am still on GMT rather than BST for example), but if you go back and read the blog link in the original post on this thread, you'll see that the earliest 'premature' tweets reporting the shooting came from the newsdesk of the Hartford Courant, which is Sandy Hook's local paper (plus one from the other local paper, the Sacramento Bee). I don't think any timezone discrepancy can account for that.
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CultjunkyOffline
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PostPosted: 02-10-2014 14:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, here's me, not what you would call IT savvy, but I'm going to conduct an experiment to check my thoughts on the time code anomalies.

I'll report my findings in a while.


Stage 3 of the experiment.


Last edited by Cultjunky on 02-10-2014 14:39; edited 1 time in total
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CultjunkyOffline
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PostPosted: 02-10-2014 14:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, here's stage 2 of my experiment.

Note the time stamp.
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CultjunkyOffline
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PostPosted: 02-10-2014 14:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok here's what I did.

Stage 1 - post a comment on ftmb. This occurred at 3:31.

Stage 2 - post a second comment on ftmb. This occured at 3:37.

Stage 3 - Edited first comment. The time code did not change to the edited time, it stayed at 3:31.

This suggests to me that the early time codes could come about due to an article being edited. I would imagine that a local news outlet might initially report a cat stuck in a tree, but as events of the day unfolded, that article be not just edited but completely overtaken by the days events, so the initial cat in tree post be deleted, not removed, and the subsequent over writing appear with the earlier time code.

Well, there's my tuppence worth anyway.
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 02-10-2014 17:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would a newspaper go back and edit an hours-old and irrelevant tweet instead of simply tweeting a new tweet while a major news story was breaking? And not just once, but several times?

I'm not even sure you can edit 'old' tweets (delete, yes, but edit no), but this would still be pretty bizarre behaviour even if it were possible. For a start, it would mean that the new story would be 'buried at birth', way down the list, rather than appearing as a new tweet at the top of the stack.

And then you have to assume that both local papers indulged in the same weird behaviour.

I don't think this idea has legs.
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kamalktkOffline
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PostPosted: 02-10-2014 23:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

garrick92 wrote:
Well, something similar occurred to me (Hotmail thinks I am still on GMT rather than BST for example), but if you go back and read the blog link in the original post on this thread, you'll see that the earliest 'premature' tweets reporting the shooting came from the newsdesk of the Hartford Courant, which is Sandy Hook's local paper (plus one from the other local paper, the Sacramento Bee). I don't think any timezone discrepancy can account for that.

Assumption: These papers changed their timezones to reflect their proper zone. Also, Sacramento is the capital of California, and the local paper for that city is the Sacramento Bee. Unless there's another Sacramento near Sandy Hook, and it's local paper is also called the Bee, the Sacramento Bee is not a local paper.
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 02-10-2014 23:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geography FAIL from me, there. Knowing how intensely local US newspapers are (you could count the 'nationals' on the fingers of one hand) I had assumed the Bee was also a Connecticut paper, not on the other side of the country!

So, some scope for a theoretical timezone lag between the two papers, but that's not what the twitter timestamps show. They show the two papers reporting 'in unison', hours early to events.
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