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| Anonymous |
Posted: 09-05-2002 09:12 Post subject: |
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| Call us when the shuttle lands, MuscularSpasm |
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JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Total posts: 5779 Location: Manchester, UK Gender: Male |
Posted: 21-12-2002 12:05 Post subject: Terrorism, a conspiracy against the laity? |
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The pious simplicities of Good and Evil have been evoked over and
over as the media have prepared us for TWAT. Maybe it will take
thirty years before the murky pacts between terrorism and the
State are exposed. Here is some ancient history. If you are in a
hurry, just skip to the end where we see the bottom line.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,864083,00.html
Cosy conspiracy between the cardinal and the cabinet minister that let an IRA priest go free
Cleric given new job after link to blasts that killed nine in Claudy
Rosie Cowan Ireland correspondent
Saturday December 21, 2002
The Guardian
The government and the Catholic Church were under pressure to launch a full public inquiry after devastating revelations yesterday that the former Northern Ireland secretary, William Whitelaw, and a cardinal were involved in covering up the role of a priest in one of the worst atrocities of the troubles.
Nine people, including an eight-year-old girl and two teenage boys, were killed and dozens were injured when three no-warning car bombs exploded in the village of Claudy, nine miles from Derry, on July 31 1972.
It was one of the bloodiest years in the province's history. Many of the Claudy bereaved felt they were soon forgotten as no one was ever arrested or charged with the murders. Nor did anyone claim responsibility, although it was always widelybelieved that the Provisional IRA was behind the attack.
Police instigated a review of the investigation after the 30th anniversary of the atrocity this year and an anonymous letter to a councillor three months ago sparked fresh controversy when it claimed that the late Father Jim Chesney, a priest in a nearby parish, played a key role in the bombing.
Detectives are now convinced by new information that not only was Chesney an active IRA man, whom special branch officers at the time believed was involved in Claudy, but that six months after the bombing, the then secretary of state Willie Whitelaw - later Lord Whitelaw - and Cardinal William Conway, the all-Ireland primate and most senior Catholic cleric on the island, discussed the priest's alleged paramilitary activities.
The church transferred Chesney to Co Donegal in the Irish Republic the following year, and he died in 1980 of cancer, aged 46, without ever being arrested or even questioned in relation to Claudy or any terrorist offence.
Yesterday Sam Kinkaid, the assistant chief constable in charge of north region, said: "Information has been found which clearly indicates that a parish priest in the south Derry area was a member of the Provisional IRA and was actively involved in terrorism. Intelligence also indicates that he was involved in the Claudy bomb. Records show he provided an alibi for a person suspected of playing a prominent role in the atrocity."
Mr Kinkaid refused to name the priest, but it is obviously Chesney, who was moved to Raphoe in 1973 and to Malin Head, both in Co Donegal, in 1974, where he continued to practise as a priest until 1977 when he became ill.
The senior policeman said his officers had not found any evidence to suggest that Neil Farren, the Catholic bishop of Derry in 1972, knew anything about Chesney's activities. But he revealed details of a private meeting on December 5 1972, between Whitelaw and Cardinal Conway, where they talked about Fr Chesney and Claudy.
A letter from a senior Northern Ireland Office official to police headquarters, dated December 6, reveals that the secretary of state expressed disgust at the priest's behaviour and that the cardinal, who died in 1977, knew Fr Chesney was "behaving improperly" and suggesting moving him to Donegal.
Mr Kinkaid said that a member of the public had told the cardinal and a senior police officer about Chesney's role in Claudy not long after the bombing and detectives discovered papers showing police briefed NIO officials in late November 1972.
The army had the lead role in security matters in 1972 and detectives have written to them, the NIO, and the Catholic church in the past few weeks, requesting additional material relating to Claudy.
Cardinal Conway, Lord Whitelaw and the then Royal Ulster Constabulary chief constable, Sir Graham Shillington, are all dead. But Downing Street, the Catholic Church and the police all face serious questions about why Chesney and others linked to the Claudy bombing were not arrested.
Mr Kinkaid held an emotional meeting with the Claudy families yesterday and apologised on behalf of the police when they demanded to know why suspects had not been questioned in the 1970s.
Billy and Merle Eakin, parents of eight-year-old Kathryn, who died while cleaning the windows of the family grocery store, urged the former prime minister Sir Edward Heath and the then defence secretary, Lord Carrington, to tell what they knew about Claudy. "I always wondered why was nothing done," said Mr Eakin. "I call on those in authority to answer the questions raised by this investigation."
Mrs Eakin said the same resources should be devoted to finding out the truth about Claudy as had been pumped into the Bloody Sunday inquiry. She hoped she and her husband lived to see the bombers brought to justice, but if they did not face it in this world, they would in the next.
Mary Hamilton, the Ulster Unionist deputy mayor of Derry, who was injured in the bomb and received the anonymous letter naming Chesney in September, said: "It's incredible that here was this man of God listening to confessions when he should have been making his own."
Gordon Miller, who lost his father, David, in the bomb, said: "Something should have been done years ago but we are satisfied this investigation is making progress and hope we are getting somewhere now."
Bishop Seamus Hegarty, the Catholic bishop of Derry, said he was would consider the police information very carefully but given the seriousness of the subject matter, he wanted to take time to give an adequate response. Government sources indicated that a public inquiry would probably not be considered until the new police investigation was completed.
The Claudy bombing was carried out just two weeks after Whitelaw, who died in 1999, held secret talks in London with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, who was then second-in-command of the IRA in Derry city.
At the time of the bombing, the Derry brigade was hemmed in the Bogside by police and troops. It has always denied carrying out the atrocity and issued a statement reiterating this denial to a local newspaper a few weeks ago.
But Ivan Cooper, a civil rights campaigner and former local MP who told the authorities about Chesney shortly after the bombing, said he was certain the rural South Derry brigade was responsible, adding the IRA must now come clean and admit their role.
Victims of the bomb
Patrick Connolly, 15
Kathryn Eakin, 8
Arthur Hone, 38, insurance representative
Joseph McCluskey, 39, factory worker
Elizabeth McElhinney, 59, pub and shop owner
James McClelland, 65, street cleaner
Rose McLaughlin, 52, cafe owner
David Miller, 60, street cleaner
William Temple, 16, milkman
Five of the victims were Catholic, four Protestant. |
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| Anonymous |
Posted: 21-12-2002 16:07 Post subject: Offside! |
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There's nothing like the truth. And that's nothing like the truth, either!
The government, assisted by the media, has disseminated a calculated piece of propaganda, designed to rescue the image of the police from the bad PR of the recently-released report calling for an overhaul of Northern Ireland's special branch. The story also puts additional pressure on the IRA at a time when the Blair government is having difficulties negotiating with them.
There is no factual basis to the story. None of the key sources can be cross-examined - they're nameless. None of the key players can rebut - they're all dead. Few will question the central allegation - previous news stories have conditioned the public to hate and fear priests.
What looks like a logical argument actually uses some of the key techniques of propaganda:
- insinuation ("Mr Kinkaid refused to name the priest, but it is obviously Chesney..."; "...Fr Chesney was 'behaving improperly'...");
- presumption of guilt ("...here was this man of God listening to confessions when he should have been making his own");
- pressing the hot buttons (the catalogue of victims; the detail that some of the victims were children; "...eight-year-old Kathryn, who died while cleaning the windows of the family grocery store...").
In short, the story was designed to bypass the critical faculties, get people all riled up about the "facts" and give them the impression that the north region police are doing something about it.
Write to the press and ask them why such a piece, devoid of content, was allowed to run.
If you can't do that, at least let a friend know about the lack of substance to the story. Otherwise the government and media will continue to ruin people's reality checks by making up stories to score political points. |
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JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Total posts: 5779 Location: Manchester, UK Gender: Male |
Posted: 21-12-2002 18:36 Post subject: |
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So it is only lying news stories which have "conditioned the public to hate and fear
priests"? Not even the priests claim that any more.
And the only "riled up" voice so far is yours, Sir.  |
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| Anonymous |
Posted: 21-12-2002 21:18 Post subject: |
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| well the only suprise about the story for me is that a Murdering Priest is considered as enough of "One Of Us" to get shuffled about rather than rubbed out by the SAS or variouse "loyalist" groups.. that is F*****g shocking......... Of the Catholic Church i can belive virtuly anything..even sheltering child molesters and war criminals. Oh i dont have to "belive" in that , thats a proved fact.... |
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| Anonymous |
Posted: 22-12-2002 06:10 Post subject: |
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| James Whitehead wrote: |
So it is only lying news stories which have "conditioned the public to hate and fear
priests"? Not even the priests claim that any more.
And the only "riled up" voice so far is yours, Sir. |
The public who have had significant contact with priests: no. They've had the opportunity to meet those drunks, sadists and lechers who wear the collar, as well as those who work to help heroin addicts, streetkids, and abused wives. They've also had the opportunity to learn that, often, the two types are present in the one person.
The public whose only significant contact with priests is via the media: yes. What else do they have to form their opinion on but the stereotypes disseminated by the media?
During the most recent accused-priest-scandal in the media over here in Oz, a Jewish friend of mine asked me (the only ex-Catholic he knows), basically, why priests were still allowed to walk the streets if they were all that bad? I replied that of course not all priests are like that, just as there are better and worse rabbis.
"But all priests are like that!" my friend said.
I asked him how many priests he'd actually met.
When he'd counted them all up, he had to admit that the number was, in fact, nil.
I've had similar experiences with people of all sorts backgrounds. The great majority have one source of information about priests: the stereotypes put about by the media. The priests who take it on themselves to patrol the grounds of the local school after hours because there aren't enough funds to hire security, or who make a salad sandwich and a cuppa for any bum who knocks on their door, or who teach their students bawdy drinking songs on the sly, tend not to make editors salivate.
And don't worry: you haven't seen me riled up.  |
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| Anonymous |
Posted: 22-12-2002 06:29 Post subject: |
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| sidecar_jon wrote: |
well the only suprise about the story for me is that a Murdering Priest is considered as enough of "One Of Us" to get shuffled about rather than rubbed out by the SAS or variouse "loyalist" groups.. that is F*****g shocking......... Of the Catholic Church i can belive virtuly anything..even sheltering child molesters and war criminals. Oh i dont have to "belive" in that , thats a proved fact.... |
The Catholic Church does have a history of protecting its brother priests, doesn't it? A priest who used to teach me was accused of molesting a student; the bishop ordered him to another parish. A lay teacher from the same school was similarly accused; the school handed him over to police. It reminds me of the way the military don't want any "interference" in "their own proceedings".
To label Fr Chesney a "Murdering Priest", however, on the basis of nameless sources, unavailable witnesses, insinuation and emoting - none of them "a proved fact" - shows how easily the government, with the help of the media, can frame someone. Anyone. There's no justice in it. And only pointing it out can defeat it. |
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JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Total posts: 5779 Location: Manchester, UK Gender: Male |
Posted: 22-12-2002 08:02 Post subject: |
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This seems to be a question, then, of which conspiracy we choose to
believe. Either the unholy collusion of Church and State decribed in
the article or the unholy collusion of press and police? described by
Lyrebird.
I can understand some of the pressures which may have caused a
Government Minister to avoid fuelling the flames of sectarianism by
uncovering a priest as a terrorist. While media manipulation is the
order of the day in N. Ireland and release of the story at this time
will serve someone's agenda, no doubt, it is unlikely to turn out to
have been a fabrication.
Here is the follow-up story printed in today's Observer:
Three more IRA priests in Claudy link
Revelation of further clergy involvement in 1972 massacre prompts calls for full inquiry into cover-up
Henry McDonald, Ireland editor
Sunday December 22, 2002
The Observer
Calls have been made for a full public inquiry into the role of clergymen in terrorism after The Observer learnt that three more priests were involved with the Provisional IRA at the time of the 1972 Claudy bomb massacre.
One of the priests was the IRA's officer commanding the Provos' North Antrim Brigade. He cannot be named for legal reasons.
The other priests who joined the IRA at the beginning of the Ulster Troubles were Father Patrick Fell and Father John Burns.
Fell served more than 10 years in an English jail over a conspiracy to cause explosions in Coventry during the early Seventies. He was convicted alongside Frank Stagg and Michael Gaughan, two IRA men who died on hunger strike in English prisons.
On his release Fell, like the priest who bombed Claudy, Father James Chesney, was allowed to serve as a priest in a rural parish in Donegal.
In 1972, Burns disappeared from his parish at St Theresa's Catholic Church in the Possilpark area of Glasgow. He fled back to Ireland after Strathclyde police raided his home searching for weapons and explosives. He was given sanctuary by fellow priests but later left the priesthood.
The role of the priests emerged following revelations that the Catholic hierarchy and the British Government colluded to cover-up the involvement of Chesney in the Claudy atrocity.
Chesney was a member of the IRA unit that left three 'no warning' bombs in the Co Derry village in July 1972. Nine people including three children were killed.
Chesney's involvement in the massacre was discussed at a private meeting in December 1972 between the first Northern Ireland Secretary William Whitelaw and Cardinal William Conway, leader of Ireland's Catholics.
Documents found by police showed that Whitelaw and Conway were both aware of Chesney's activities. A briefing note was sent by a senior official at the Northern Ire land Office to police headquarters the next day.
Assistant Chief Constable Sam Kincaid - the officer currently investigating Claudy - said the letter states that the cardinal mentioned the possibility of transferring the priest to Donegal. By January 1973 'intelligence suggested he was working there'.
Chesney was actually transferred to a parish at Malin Head, in Co Donegal across the border. He died from cancer in 1980.
Last night, a prominent community activist in Derry called for the resignation of the Catholic hierarchy in Ireland. Proinsias O'Mianain, a leading figure in the Irish language movement and a Catholic, also demanded a public inquiry.
'These people should have been reported to the police as soon as their murderous activities came to light. But instead the Church just moved them to remote parishes in the Irish Republic ... and then engaged in a conspiracy of silence which blocked investigations.'
David Trimble, the Ulster Unionist leader, also called for a Bloody Sunday-style inquiry into the Claudy bombing which he said would reveal the role of other priests in terrorism.
Last edited by JamesWhitehead on 22-12-2002 13:51; edited 1 time in total |
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| Guest |
Posted: 22-12-2002 13:20 Post subject: |
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'The Bells of Hell'
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling, for you but not for me.
And the little devils have a sing-a-ling-a-ling, for you but not for me.
Oh death where is they sting-a-ling-a-ling, oh grave thy victory?
The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling, for you but not for me. |
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| Anonymous |
Posted: 22-12-2002 13:50 Post subject: Help Stop The Frame-Up! |
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| James Whitehead wrote: |
I can understand some of the pressures which may have caused a
Government Minister to avoid fuelling the flames of sectarianism by
uncovering a priest as a terrorist. While media manipulation is the
order of the day in N. Ireland and release of the story at this time
will serve someone's agenda, no doubt, it is unlikely to turn out to
have been a fabrication. |
Yes, release of the story at this time does indeed serve someone's agenda, doesn't it? A recently-released report calls for an overhaul of Northern Ireland's special branch. The government needs to bolster the image of the police in Ireland. It invents a case which, if you had read the "facts" in a celebrity's tell-all book or some UFO casebook, you'd smirk and turn the page: no uncooperative witnesses (since they're all dead, the government can say what they like about them), no sources to be corroborated (since they're all nameless, the government can say what they like about them too), and the guilt of the accused is presumed from the get-go - especially by those readers who have no experience of priests other than what the media have trained them to fear about them. The north region police are going to look very efficient when they "solve" this "case" by "discovering" the guilt that was presumed in the first place. Trouble is, the setup contravenes every principle of justice that government and police are supposed to stand for.
Similarly, the Blair government is having trouble getting the IRA to accept its latest demands. Time to remind the public just who the Bad Guys are.
Which Government Minister do you mean, James? The story cites "a senior Northern Ireland Office official". If that's who you mean, there is no named source, no-one who can be further questioned. It's not reliable. It's not reportage; it's fiction.
The story is unlikely to be reported as a fabrication. Especially on page one. Especially if no-one challenges it. Write to the press and ask why they ran a story with no available witnesses, no named sources and a presumption of guilt.
The Observer story adds not one relevant fact that was not in the other story. With only the same nameless, uncorroborated sources to cite, the accused Fr Chesney has now become "the priest who bombed Claudy", just like that. Previously, the accusation was that he had provided an alibi for someone. How these accusations escalate without additional evidence! It's almost enough to make you suspect someone's making it up...
Added to the mix are the irrelevant stories of Fr Fell and Fr Burns, neither of whom are said to have had any connection with Claudy or Fr Chesney. (And a third priest, also - guess what? - nameless, but satisfying the rhetorical Rule of Three.) It's a classic guilt-by-association ploy: Fr Fell was a priest, and was convicted (on charges he has always strenuously denied - see here); Fr Burns was a priest, and was suspected. Therefore Fr Chesney must have been guilty, right?
James, I've known two families whose dads have been convicted of molesting children, and two more whose dads were accused of it. Does this mean all dads are child molestors?
There are no living witnesses, no named sources, no documents published for us to read for ourselves. The story runs on insinuation, guilt-by-association, and conditioned emotion. It's a do-up. Ask the press who put them up to running a story with so little substance. |
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| Guest |
Posted: 22-12-2002 14:06 Post subject: And... |
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| Quote: | | Mrs Eakin said the same resources should be devoted to finding out the truth about Claudy as had been pumped into the Bloody Sunday inquiry. She hoped she and her husband lived to see the bombers brought to justice, but if they did not face it in this world, they would in the next. | Well, the accusation's placement during the inquiry, mentioned above, is suspicous. The police and Unionists do seem to be acting as if they have access to some real and potentially embarrassing information.
Making it the week before Christmas, probably precludes any immediate, or thorough follow up.
Perhaps, we shall just have to wait and see what develops. There's no doubt the authority of the RC Church has been severely weakened, all around the world, of late. Are you suggesting some sort of Global Conspiracy, Lyrebird? |
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| Anonymous |
Posted: 22-12-2002 14:44 Post subject: Re: And... |
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| AndroMan wrote: |
Perhaps, we shall just have to wait and see what develops. There's no doubt the authority of the RC Church has been severely weakened, all around the world, of late. Are you suggesting some sort of Global Conspiracy, Lyrebird? |
No global conspiracy against the Church, Androman. Emotional contagion, born of fear and ambiguity. There have been enough genuine cases of wrongdoing by priests to make almost any accusation seem believable. When it seems that the type of person whom you ought to be able to trust implicitly can suddenly turn out to be a threat to your safety and survival, what are you supposed to do about it? How are you supposed to react, when the media are running stories (nevermind the evidence) that confirm your fear? The intense media coverage of every accusation, becoming a presumption of guilt almost before the byline is written, leads to fears that don't match the risks. People become prepared to see danger where it doesn't exist. And opinion-makers have no qualms about using that to suit their own agendas, with no concerns for the consequences of the anxiety of their targets.
The best defense is to ask "Where is the evidence?". Nevermind whether someone appears to have something up their sleeve; I've known poker players who can bluff you out of your clothes with nothing more than an ace-high nothing. Call them on it. Ask to see their hand before you hand over your stakes. |
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intaglioreally Well what am I now? Joined: 14 Oct 2001 Total posts: 2641 Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 29-12-2002 19:52 Post subject: |
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| The reason why it is coming out now is because of the 30 year rule when official secrets are, generally, declassified. It is normal for newspapers to be given leaked information about this just prior to Christmas; so the whole furore dies a quick death; rather than after Christmas when lack of news normally means it gets far greater coverage. |
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| Anonymous |
Posted: 13-07-2003 22:07 Post subject: IRA links with PLO |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3063257.stm
"A suspected dissident Irish republican who Israeli police accuse of training Palestinian militants in the use of explosives has been arrested in the West Bank."
hum can we expect some suicid bombs in Ireland? |
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| Anonymous |
Posted: 13-07-2003 22:08 Post subject: Re: IRA links with PLO |
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| sidecar_jon wrote: |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3063257.stm
"A suspected dissident Irish republican who Israeli police accuse of training Palestinian militants in the use of explosives has been arrested in the West Bank."
hum can we expect some suicid bombs in Ireland? |
or is it just a case of have gun (and dont mind murdering people) will travel |
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