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Samuel Pepys
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EssexSpookOffline
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PostPosted: 20-09-2005 18:29    Post subject: Samuel Pepys Reply with quote

Does anyone have any info on the supposed involvement of Samuel Pepys in black magic, or some secret lost diary? I've been looking into it for a while, but can't find anything, so I'm sure it's nothing, but still...
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wembley8Offline
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PostPosted: 20-09-2005 18:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds a little confused. Sam's diaries are very extensive and very well-known, including his religious and scientific interests. The day-by-day Pepys blog is highly recomended -

http://www.pepysdiary.com/

- lots of fascinating historical detail...and he does occasionally touch on matters Fortean.
Some of the rude bits of the diary were written in 'code', and some of the Royal Society's work was considered to be occult (those were unsophisticated days) but I don't think he's the sort to be takn in by black magic.
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EssexSpookOffline
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PostPosted: 20-09-2005 18:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I'm not too sure on the source or where I heard it, it was just along the lines that he had some 'missing' or 'secret' diary (apart from the vast collection of ones known), that had some occult element. Sure it's nothing though.
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Sifaka317Offline
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PostPosted: 20-09-2005 19:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

EssexSpook wrote:
...it was just along the lines that he had some 'missing' or 'secret' diary (apart from the vast collection of ones known), that had some occult element.


Not come across this myself. Sure it was Pepys? You couldn't have been thinking of Sir Isaac Newton by any chance? I believe his diaries evinced a profound interest and belief in matters alcehemical and cabbalistic...
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EssexSpookOffline
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PostPosted: 20-09-2005 19:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Na, it was definately Pepys I was told.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 21-09-2005 09:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if this will help but have found on:
Link

Champion, Justin "The Occult Laboratory: Magic, Science and Second Sight in Late 17th Century Scotland (review)"
Journal of the History of Philosophy - Volume 40, Number 4, October 2002, pp. 545-546
The Johns Hopkins University Press


Excerpt

This is a superb collection of original materials (including a range of private correspondence, scribal works, and printed texts) related to the "strange reports" of incidence of "second sight" in Scotland from the 1680s to the 1700s. The material includes literary exchanges between powerful figures in the Anglo-Scottish intellectual community like Robert Boyle, John Aubrey, Robert Kirk, John Frazer, and Samuel Pepys. All of these texts are edited with immaculate care and informative annotation. The lengthy introduction provides both intellectual context and a detailed bibliographical account. Collectively the texts reproduced here provide a comprehensive resource for the examination of attitudes to magic and the supernatural in the late seventeenth century. From these texts one can reconstruct the battle between "orthodox" Anglican defenders of a "spirit world" and the sceptical assault on its authenticity"


I tried using combinations of pepys, secret, diary, magic, occult etc. But I didn't find anything (10 min search) that actually pointed towards a secret diary or magic per se - though lots to do with Pepys' shorthand technique. Good hunting.

[Emp edit: Fixing big link]
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EssexSpookOffline
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PostPosted: 21-09-2005 18:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers, can't actually access the link because it requires you to log in at a university that subscribes to the journal, but I'll def check it out!
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rynner
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PostPosted: 14-10-2006 22:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not black magic, but still interesting...
Quote:
Mystery of Pepys' affair solved

The fate of famous diarist Samuel Pepys's young mistress has been unearthed by new research.
A lecturer at Leicester University has revealed Pepys and his mistress Deb Willet kept in contact after she was banished from his household.

His affair with the 17-year-old servant was recorded in one of the best-known episodes of his 17th Century journal.

Oxford University's main research library revealed that she later asked her former lover for help.

University of Leicester lecturer Kate Loveman said Deb's new husband asked Pepys, a naval officer, for help in finding a job and he found the man some work on a ship.

"Given Pepys's past obsession with Deb, his continued contact with her family raises suspicions about the nature of their relationship," Mrs Loveman said.

"He may have assisted Deb and her husband out of simple benevolence.

"However Pepys's wife was now dead, Deb was living close by, and Pepys knew she was without her husband - indeed he had helped send her husband elsewhere.

"The situation is particularly suspicious because Pepys's diary reveals that his affairs with women had more than once led to him helping their husbands to a position on board ship," she said.

Deb Willet died in 1678 when still a young woman.

The lecturer says her research, which involved trawling through the archives of Bodleian library, Oxford, sheds new light on the writer.

"Pepys describes in vivid terms his infatuation with 17-year-old Deb, his wife Elizabeth's discovery of the affair, and the strife which followed, including an episode when the jealous Elizabeth threatened him with hot tongs.

"After tracking Deb obsessively around London, Pepys eventually lost contact with her and, in his last diary entry in May 1669, regrets that 'my amours to Deb are past'."

Mrs Loveman's findings are published in the latest edition of The Historical Journal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/6051128.stm

...regrets that 'my amours to Deb are past'

Ah, I know the feeling! Sad
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 18-10-2006 16:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Pepys' history beyond the diary




Research carried out by a lecturer at the University of Leicester has uncovered a new twist in the tale of noted seventeenth century diarist, Samuel Pepys. Dr Kate Loveman, from the University’s Department of English, discovered new evidence relating to Pepys’ affair with his seventeen year old mistress, Deb Willet. Details of their sexual relationship have been recorded for posterity in Pepys’s famous journal but little was known of what happened to Deb once their affair had ended. Pepys records his infatuation wit his wife’s companion as well as the discovery of their affair, which resulted in him being threatened with hot tongs by his enraged spouse.

Then, in an entry from May 1669, he notes regretfully that ‘my amours to Deb are past. However Dr Loveman’s research, published in The Historical Journal seems to reveal that the two lovers in fact remained in close contact, long after Deb left Pepys’ household. Using records from the London archives and from Pepys’s papers in the Bodleian library, Dr Loveman traced a history showing that Deb Married a young Clergyman, Jeremiah Wells, eight months after leaving Pepys but that her husband later contacted her former lover asking for help in seeking employment.

As a navy official, Pepys was able to help Wells by getting him a job as a navy chaplain and Pepys continued to act as Wells’s patron throughout the 1670s. This generosity on the part of Pepys raises questions as to his true motives in helping his former lover and whether indeed the affair was ever terminated. “He may have assisted Deb and her husband out of simple benevolence.

However Pepys’s wife was now dead, Deb was living close by, and Pepys knew she was without her husband – indeed he had helped send her husband elsewhere.” Commented Dr Loveman. As well as being of interest to Pepys enthusiasts, Dr Loveman’s research sheds new light on the complex relationships of seventeenth century life; “Small case-studies like this allow us to build up a better picture of how individuals could rise in Restoration society through a combination of merit, diligence, and patronage.” (October 16th)

Charlie Cottrell

Pepys
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Timble2Offline
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PostPosted: 18-10-2006 16:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

EssexSpook wrote:
Yea, I'm not too sure on the source or where I heard it, it was just along the lines that he had some 'missing' or 'secret' diary (apart from the vast collection of ones known), that had some occult element. Sure it's nothing though.


It's in a game Nightmare Creatures, it's fiction.
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OldTimeRadioOffline
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PostPosted: 21-10-2006 10:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sifaka317 wrote:
Sure it was Pepys? You couldn't have been thinking of Sir Isaac Newton by any chance? I believe his diaries evinced a profound interest and belief in matters alcehemical and cabbalistic...


I found myself wondering if Essex might not have been thinking of the diary of a certain Dr. John Dee.
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OldTimeRadioOffline
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PostPosted: 21-10-2006 10:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

wembley8 wrote:
...and he does occasionally touch on matters Fortean.


Wasn't Pepys chummy with that notable proto-Fortean, the splendidly "idle fellow" John Aubrey?
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escargot1Offline
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PostPosted: 12-12-2013 11:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a listen to a dramatised extract on R4 - The Diary of Samuel Pepys
Quote:

Sam writes a letter to the Duke of York laying out his suggestions for reform of the Navy Board; the Duke is delighted and signs the letter as his own. Elizabeth is upset to hear that Sam has been gadding about while she's been away but that's nothing compared to what happens when she walks in on him in the act of fondling Debs, the maid.


A bit racy! Shocked
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Heckler20Offline
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PostPosted: 12-12-2013 11:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

I visited the Pepys library at Magdalene college in Cambridge in the summer, essentially his book collection (over 3000 volumes) arranged in locked glass fronted cupboards. Whilst perusing the titles on the spines I noticed he had a copy of a True and Faithful Relation of What Passed for Many Years Between Dr. John Dee and Some Spirits, which is the transcript of the conversations (often in Enochian) between Dee's medium Edward Kelley and Angels.

So in answer to the original poster it appears Pepys, who was a voracious bibliophile, was certainly interested in the Occult, what he made of the Dee volume obviously we don't know and as to whether this sparked a wider interest or was simple curiosity we also don't know.
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Timble2Offline
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PostPosted: 18-12-2013 17:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

escargot1 wrote:
Have a listen to a dramatised extract on R4 - The Diary of Samuel Pepys
Quote:

Sam writes a letter to the Duke of York laying out his suggestions for reform of the Navy Board; the Duke is delighted and signs the letter as his own. Elizabeth is upset to hear that Sam has been gadding about while she's been away but that's nothing compared to what happens when she walks in on him in the act of fondling Debs, the maid.


A bit racy! Shocked


They actually used the line "I was with my hand in her cunny." I suppose such rudeness is OK if the work is a Classic. Twisted Evil
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