| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
rynner2 What a Cad! Great Old One Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Total posts: 21362 Location: Under the moon Gender: Male |
Posted: 09-06-2011 17:22 Post subject: |
|
|
|
David Kelly inquest ruled out by Attorney General
Attorney General Dominic Grieve has ruled out asking the High Court to order an inquest into the death of David Kelly.
1:07PM BST 09 Jun 2011
David Cameron suggested a full inquest was unnecessary last month, saying the Hutton report into the Government weapons inspector's death had been "fairly clear".
But a group of campaigning doctors, led by Dr Stephen Frost, accused the Government of being "complicit in a determined and concerted cover-up", saying they would now seek a judicial review of Mr Grieve's decision.
Speaking in the Commons, Mr Grieve told MPs the evidence that Dr Kelly took his own life was "overwhelming".
There was no evidence to support claims he was murdered or "any kind of conspiracy theory", he said.
The scientist's body was found in woods close to his Oxfordshire home in 2003, shortly after he had been revealed as the source of a BBC report questioning the accuracy of a government dossier arguing the case for war in Iraq.
The Hutton Inquiry in 2004 found that Dr Kelly committed suicide, and then-justice secretary Lord Falconer ruled the inquiry could take the place of an inquest in the coroner's court.
But the doctors pointed out that Lord Hutton spent only half a day of his 24-day inquiry considering the cause of Dr Kelly's death.
They have denounced the Hutton report as a "whitewash" which "failed adequately to address the cause of death itself and the manner of death".
They argued: "No coroner in the land would have reached a suicide verdict on the evidence which Lord Hutton heard.
"The coroner is required to hear evidence which constitutes proof beyond reasonable doubt that the deceased killed himself and that he intended to kill himself, before he may return a verdict of suicide. Lord Hutton did not hear evidence which came near to satisfying that test."
Dr Frost said: "It is therefore very surprising and perplexing that the Attorney General today supports those who wish to deny Dr Kelly a proper inquest.
"This is clearly a political decision when it should have been a decision based solely on the law.
"This Government has now revealed itself to be complicit in a determined and concerted cover-up.
"Four successive governments have sought to obscure the truth of what happened. The cover-up could not be more obvious."
He condemned the "deeply flawed" decision, saying it had "no basis in law", and called for Mr Grieve to resign.
"As a lawyer, his position as Attorney General is now untenable and he will no doubt be subject to reasonable demands that he resign," Dr Frost said.
"The continuing cover-up of the truth of what happened is a national disgrace and should be of concern to all British citizens."
He went on: "We intend vigorously to contest the decision of the Attorney General at the High Court of Justice through judicial review of that decision.
"We need the public's support and a fund has been set up for the possibility that we will be required to pay the Government's legal costs were we to lose.
"The public interest of due process of the law being observed by the Government which serves the British people cannot be trumped by any other purported public interest."
Dr Frost added: "A proper inquest into the suspicious death of any British citizen is required by the laws of this country.
"Everyone now knows that the Hutton Inquiry, which purported to fulfil the coronial requirement, was a woefully inadequate instrument for investigating this most important death, especially given the highly controversial context of illegal war in which the death of this loyal and brilliant public servant took place.
"It is highly regrettable that Dominic Grieve has sought, as did the coroner Nicholas Gardiner before him, to rubber-stamp the clear subversion of due process of the law that the derailing of the inquest by Lord Falconer on August 13, 2003 constituted."
Earlier, former prime minister Tony Blair told the BBC Breakfast programme that as far as he knew the questions surrounding Dr Kelly's death had been answered by the Hutton report and that he "frankly" doubted that the Attorney General had different information.
A key focus of the doctors' concerns were the differing descriptions from witnesses as to how Dr Kelly's body was found, and whether it had been moved, Mr Grieve said.
"This issue has proven fertile ground for imaginative speculation to take over," he told MPs.
But he insisted all the evidence from the careful forensic examination of the scene and his own detailed review supports the view that "Dr Kelly died where he was found and from the causes determined".
"There is no evidence I've seen that would suggest any other explanation, or that would suggest any cover-up or conspiracy whatsoever," he said.
Stressing his findings were his own and his alone, Mr Grieve went on: "I've received no representations of any kind from the prime minister or any other ministerial colleague on this decision.
"The suggestion that Dr Kelly didn't take his own life is not based on positive evidence as such, but on the criticism of the findings of the investigation and inquiry."
He added that while the doctors were expert in their own areas, they were not qualified forensic pathologists.
Mr Grieve went on: "Having given all the material that's been sent to me the most careful consideration, I've concluded that the evidence that Dr Kelly took his own life is overwhelmingly strong.
"Further, there is nothing I've seen that supports any allegation that Dr Kelly was murdered or that his death was the subject of any kind of conspiracy or cover-up.
"In my view, no purpose would be served by my making an application to the High Court for an inquest, and indeed I have no reasonable basis for doing so.
"There is no possibility that at an inquest a verdict other than suicide would be returned."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8565848/David-Kelly-inquest-ruled-out-by-Attorney-General.html
Which gets a big fat from me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jonfairway Great Old One Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Total posts: 1185 Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 10-06-2011 13:33 Post subject: |
|
|
|
and me  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Quake42 Warrior Princess Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5310 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 10-06-2011 14:10 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quote: | Which gets a big fat from me.
|
It strikes me that some people are convinced that Kelly was murdered and no amount of inquiries, investigations or evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise.
I don't doubt that the British security services can be ruthless when it comes to defence of the realm or their interpetation of that defence. I do not, however, believe that are in the habit of murdering British citizens. Killing Kelly would have been pointless as he had already blabbed to the media. What was to be gained? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17931 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
Posted: 10-06-2011 14:12 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quake42 wrote: | | Quote: | Which gets a big fat from me.
|
It strikes me that some people are convinced that Kelly was murdered and no amount of inquiries, investigations or evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise.
I don't doubt that the British security services can be ruthless when it comes to defence of the realm or their interpetation of that defence. I do not, however, believe that are in the habit of murdering British citizens. Killing Kelly would have been pointless as he had already blabbed to the media. What was to be gained? |
The encouragement of others? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Quake42 Warrior Princess Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5310 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 10-06-2011 14:24 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quote: | The encouragement of others?
|
Well, that only works if a sufficient number of people believe it wasn't a suicide, but rather a "hit" by a secret service death squad.
Also, if this was a deliberate policy, one would expect other critics of the UK government to regularly turn up dead in bizarre situations. This doesn't appear to be happening.
Kelly was close to retirement and in poor health. His job and pension were on the line. He had been betrayed by journalists who had promised to protect him.
People have killed themselves over a lot less. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17931 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
Posted: 10-06-2011 14:41 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quake42 wrote: | | Quote: | The encouragement of others?
|
Well, that only works if a sufficient number of people believe it wasn't a suicide, but rather a "hit" by a secret service death squad.
Also, if this was a deliberate policy, one would expect other critics of the UK government to regularly turn up dead in bizarre situations. This doesn't appear to be happening.
Kelly was close to retirement and in poor health. His job and pension were on the line. He had been betrayed by journalists who had promised to protect him.
People have killed themselves over a lot less. |
Lots of UK citizens have ended up dead due to the actions of various intellgence agencies in Northern Ireland.
I'm not convinced that Kelly was murdered but I believe that MI6 etc are quite capable of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Quake42 Warrior Princess Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5310 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 10-06-2011 14:55 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quote: | | Lots of UK citizens have ended up dead due to the actions of various intellgence agencies in Northern Ireland. |
That is true, but NI is rather a different animal, with shady paramilitary groups of various persuasions ready to be fed information on potential targets. There's nothing remotely similar on the mainland. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17931 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
Posted: 10-06-2011 14:59 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quake42 wrote: | | Quote: | | Lots of UK citizens have ended up dead due to the actions of various intellgence agencies in Northern Ireland. |
That is true, but NI is rather a different animal, with shady paramilitary groups of various persuasions ready to be fed information on potential targets. There's nothing remotely similar on the mainland. |
But it wasnt just a case of being fed information. They ran agents in both loyalist and republican groups who arranged and took part in murders. My cousin was murdered by their agent Sean O'Calaghan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Quake42 Warrior Princess Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5310 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 10-06-2011 15:12 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quote: | My cousin was murdered by their agent Sean O'Calaghan.
|
I'm very sorry to hear that - terrible.
However I stand by my point that the security services have not to date acted in this way on the mainland: even when dealing with jihadists. Iremain unconvinced that they would murder Kelly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17931 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
Posted: 11-06-2011 13:58 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quake42 wrote: | | Quote: | My cousin was murdered by their agent Sean O'Calaghan.
|
I'm very sorry to hear that - terrible.
However I stand by my point that the security services have not to date acted in this way on the mainland: even when dealing with jihadists. Iremain unconvinced that they would murder Kelly. |
Thanks. I'm also unconvince re Kelly but I do think the intelligence establishment and its various constituents are capable of anything. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17931 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
Posted: 11-06-2011 14:27 Post subject: |
|
|
|
This thread shows hoe far they were prepared to go in NI.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17931 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rynner2 What a Cad! Great Old One Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Total posts: 21362 Location: Under the moon Gender: Male |
Posted: 11-06-2011 20:53 Post subject: |
|
|
|
I got this warning on that link - don't think I've seen it before:
| Quote: | There is a problem with this website's security certificate.
The security certificate presented by this website was not issued by a trusted certificate authority.
The security certificate presented by this website has expired or is not yet valid.
Security certificate problems may indicate an attempt to fool you or intercept any data you send to the server.
We recommend that you close this webpage and do not continue to this website.
Click here to close this webpage.
Continue to this website (not recommended).
More information
...
For more information, see "Certificate Errors" in Internet Explorer Help.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17931 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jimv1 Great Old One Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Total posts: 2734 Gender: Male |
Posted: 12-06-2011 08:31 Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Quake42 wrote: | | Quote: | Which gets a big fat from me.
|
I don't doubt that the British security services can be ruthless when it comes to defence of the realm or their interpetation of that defence. I do not, however, believe that are in the habit of murdering British citizens. Killing Kelly would have been pointless as he had already blabbed to the media. What was to be gained? |
It would be useful to establish that Kelly was murdered BEFORE assuming our spooks were responsible. There are other theories out there that it was an Iraqi hit job for example. The prospect of other countries assassinating top people on our own turf - possibly while the victim was under surveillance would be a major embarrassment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|