Forums

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages 
The Picts
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Earth Mysteries - historical and classical cases
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Quake42Offline
Warrior Princess
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Total posts: 5546
Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 04-09-2005 13:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure I recall speculation (possibly on this board!) around the time of the Homo Floresiensis finds that the Picts might have been a similarly diminutive type of non-homo sapiens human.

I just tried to find something about it on the web but annoyingly, nothing seems to show up. Maybe I imagined it Sad
Back to top
View user's profile 
natarajaOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Total posts: 106
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 07-09-2005 19:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quake42 wrote:
I'm sure I recall speculation (possibly on this board!) around the time of the Homo Floresiensis finds that the Picts might have been a similarly diminutive type of non-homo sapiens human.

I just tried to find something about it on the web but annoyingly, nothing seems to show up. Maybe I imagined it Sad

There's at least one story with this premise in one of the "CryptoFiction" collections which were put out (in PDF format, AFAIK) by the North American Bio-Fortean Review (NABR) (basically, collections of short stories, mostly by out-of-copyright horror and science fiction writers, dealing (loosely) with cryptozoology and/or cryptoanthropology)...

Unfortunately i can't remember who the story was by, but the name Arthur(?) Machen comes to mind as an author who wrote similarly themed stuff...

I *think* the NABR website is at www.strangeark.com , but it could have moved from there since the last time i took a look at it...

(first post on the new board that actually worked! woo!)
Back to top
View user's profile 
natarajaOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Total posts: 106
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 08-09-2005 00:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a quick look, and found the story in question here: http://www.herper.com/ebooks/library/biofort/CZfic6.pdf

go to "No Man's Land" by John Buchan...
Back to top
View user's profile 
Anonymous
PostPosted: 16-11-2005 21:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first ever FTMB argument was over the Picts...even led to someone going in the huff, if I recall...You'll find it here;

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10809&highlight=picts
Back to top
many_angled_oneOffline
Haunter of the Dark
Joined: 18 Jan 2002
Total posts: 439
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 22-11-2005 15:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah I remember that good old thread. It reminded me about something I seemed to have forgotten, that Woad (the plant used for painting yourself blue before battle- hence pict=painted one) was discovered (it was int eh newspapers I recall) to help clot the blood of wounds and this would be benificial to paint on yourself before going into battle.
Of course I havent ever tested this personally you understand.
Back to top
View user's profile 
Anonymous
PostPosted: 16-02-2006 16:20    Post subject: Wrong thread... Reply with quote

...actually, this is the thread I meant to direct you to. that other thread was - er, well, largely my being very, very long-winded.

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5238&highlight=picts

Worth looking at for the range of perspectives and arguments - and, oh yes, the fireworks...
Back to top
BIg_SlimOffline
Yeti
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Total posts: 98
Location: A soggy shoebox in the middle of the M2
Age: 42
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 26-02-2006 03:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

The picts or "The painted people" (named by the romans) were also extensively tattoed
with their gods and fertility symbols like a bull and also tatooes that
would mark them as a particular tribe. This recent idea about the blue
paint comes from braveheart.
When the picts went into battle they either wore.... surprise surprise
normal chainmail like everyone else or they would go totaly naked
and coat themselves with a chalk/water mixture (yeah its white paint)
Back to top
View user's profile 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 26-02-2006 04:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, where the would y'er average Pict pick up some chainmail anyway? Unless, it was off a dead Roman. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile 
Timble2Offline
Imaginary person
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Total posts: 7123
Location: Practically in Narnia
Age: 58
Gender: Female
PostPosted: 26-02-2006 12:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
And, where the would y'er average Pict pick up some chainmail anyway? Unless, it was off a dead Roman. Wink


Well since there's some speculaton that the "Celtic" peoples (of which the Picts were another variety) traded metal with the Romans (as in supplied metals), they probably wouldn't have had any problems making it.
Back to top
View user's profile 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 26-02-2006 13:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timble2 wrote:
Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
And, where the would y'er average Pict pick up some chainmail anyway? Unless, it was off a dead Roman. Wink


Well since there's some speculaton that the "Celtic" peoples (of which the Picts were another variety) traded metal with the Romans (as in supplied metals), they probably wouldn't have had any problems making it.

True and jolly good metal workers they were too, what they lacked was any signs of mass production. There wasn't much more labour and resource intensive stuff in the ancient World than the working of metal.

I'm reckoning at best any chainmail in use amongst the picts would have been a highly prized and rare commodity.
Back to top
View user's profile 
rynner
Location: Still above sea level
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 26-02-2006 14:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

BIg_Slim wrote:
The picts or "The painted people" (named by the romans) were also extensively tattoed
with their gods and fertility symbols like a bull and also tatooes that
would mark them as a particular tribe. This recent idea about the blue
paint comes from braveheart.

I think it's a couple of thousand years earlier than that!

When the Romans invaded Britain, the defending warriors were painted with woad (as I was taught at school, possibly before Mel Gibson was born!), and you'll find numerous references to this on the web. eg
Quote:
WOAD: Caesar says all British men wore woad. This was a bright blue paste from the woad-plant, which could either be painted on, or tattooed into, the skin. It was arranged in strange, Maori-like patterns, usually swirling or circular. It may have covered the whole body.


http://fanaticus.org/dba/armies/dba60jl.html
Back to top
View user's profile 
BIg_SlimOffline
Yeti
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Total posts: 98
Location: A soggy shoebox in the middle of the M2
Age: 42
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 27-02-2006 01:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes rynner i read about WOAD too.
what i said came from an hour long tv programme on
uktv history about the picts.
From what i made of it it was a time of real change in the picts world
some would wear the new chainmail while others went into battle naked except for thier tattoes and the chalk/water mix
the woad may have been later on or earlier i dont know for sure
but the time period covered in the program was around the start of
haidrians wall being built.
Very interesting stuff all the same.
Back to top
View user's profile 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 27-02-2006 08:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

BIg_Slim wrote:
Yes rynner i read about WOAD too.
what i said came from an hour long tv programme on
uktv history about the picts.
From what i made of it it was a time of real change in the picts world
some would wear the new chainmail while others went into battle naked except for thier tattoes and the chalk/water mix
the woad may have been later on or earlier i dont know for sure
but the time period covered in the program was around the start of
haidrians wall being built
.
Very interesting stuff all the same.

Which means that whoever made the programme would have been guessing big time! Wink
Back to top
View user's profile 
rynner
Location: Still above sea level
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 27-02-2006 08:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
Which means that whoever made the programme would have been guessing big time! Wink

There's a lot of written evidence, primarily from Julius Caesar, who wrote extensively about his military campaigns, and described in detail the tribes he came up against.

But be warned - if you Google on Caesar, De Bellis Gallico, you'll get a lot of pages in Latin! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 27-02-2006 09:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guessing and extrapolation, nonetheless.
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts

...

Legends of the "Painted People"

Popular etymology has long interpreted the name Pict as if it derived from the Latin the word Picti meaning "painted folk" or possibly "tattooed ones"; and this may relate to the Welsh word Pryd meaning "to mark" or "to draw". Julius Caesar, who never went near Pictland, mentions the British Celtic custom of body painting in Book V of his Gallic Wars, stating

Omnes vero se Britanni vitro inficiunt, quod caeruleum efficit colorem, atque hoc horridiores sunt in pugna aspectu,

which means

In fact all Britanni stain themselves with vitrum, which produces a dark blue colour, and by this means they are more terrifying to face in battle.

The phrase vitro inficiunt is traditionally translated as "stain with woad", but could as well have meant “infect with glass”-describing a scarification ritual which left dark blue scars-or “dye with glaze”, forming a direct reference to tattooing. Subsequent commentators may have displaced the 1st-century BC southern practices (of the Brittani, a tribe south of the Thames) to the northern peoples in an attempt to explain the name Picti, which came into use only in the 3rd century AD. Julius Caesar himself, commenting in his Gallic Wars on the tribes from the areas where Picts (later) lived, states that they have “designs carved into their faces by iron”.

If they used woad, then it probably penetrated under the skin as a tattoo, but there is some recent controversy over this as the woad damages the skin to produce scar tissue, but the blue colour is lost. More likely, the Celts used copper for blue tattoos (they had plenty of it) and soot-ash carbon for black. Further study of bog bodies may provide more information on the specific tattooing techniques (if any) used by the Picts.

...

Hadrian's Wall was built about 200 years before the name 'Picti' came into use.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/romans/hadrian_gallery.shtml
Back to top
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Earth Mysteries - historical and classical cases All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group