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escargot1 Joined: 24 Aug 2001 Total posts: 17897 Location: Farkham Hall Age: 4 Gender: Female |
 Posted: 23-12-2003 10:09 Post subject: Crocodile kills Australian man, stalks his friends |
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Croc attack
| Quote: | | SYDNEY: A large saltwater crocodile dragged a young Australian man to his death in an outback river and then stalked his two companions as they clung to a tree in the middle of the river for 22 hours, police said on Tuesday. |
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| McAvennie_ OBE Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Total posts: 2680 Location: Paris, France Age: 34 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 23-12-2003 11:30 Post subject: |
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Eaten by a fearsome monster must be a fate worse than death 
I watched a show on C5 about shark attacks, had some gruesome footage but some very interesting scientifics behind attacks.
Saltwater crocodile, eh? What if an Australian saltwater crocodile of that size crossed pathes with a mambo sized great white in saltwater? Does this kind of zoological smackdown ever happen?
How far out do saltwater crocs go? |
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| Kondoru Unfeathered Biped Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Total posts: 5788 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 23-12-2003 13:52 Post subject: |
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| I cant recall where but I seem to recall reading that big crocs can be found swimming bravely along far out to see. Some have barnacles on them. |
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| stuneville Administrator
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 Total posts: 10230 Location: FTMB HQ Age: 46 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 23-12-2003 14:30 Post subject: |
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Don't want to detract from the poor bugger's fate for one minute, but it does make me wonder when people go to an area known to be inhabited by big, potentially man-eating reptiles, and then act really surprised when someone gets attacked by one of them.
I tend to take Billy Connolly's view - the sea (around Australia) is dangerous, full of sharks, sea-snakes, spinefish etc: so don't go in there! Humans have no business whatsoever being in the sea - it's not as if the sharks, sea-snakes etc ever venture inland and start leaping out at people from behind bins or anything.
What'll happen to the croc, presuming they find it, anyway? Kill it, for being a crocodile? Cart it off to somewhere else that it can attack people who shouldn't be in it's living room in the first place? Fair enough when they do so when crocs venture too close to human settlements, but movning one from one remote part of the outback to another remote part of the outback strikes me as a little redundant. |
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| McAvennie_ OBE Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Total posts: 2680 Location: Paris, France Age: 34 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 23-12-2003 14:39 Post subject: |
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| stu neville wrote: |
Fair enough when they do so when crocs venture too close to human settlements |
Even then it's a bit off to kill it. They were there first. |
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| Anonymous |
| Posted: 23-12-2003 15:04 Post subject: |
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Have just read the BBC news report on this. Not wanting to be overly suspicious, but how do we know that the guy was eaten by a croc if there is no evidence of it. We only have these two guys word for it. For all we know, it could be an elaborate cover up.
It's probably just my suspicious nature... |
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| stuneville Administrator
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 Total posts: 10230 Location: FTMB HQ Age: 46 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 23-12-2003 15:46 Post subject: |
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| McAvennie wrote: |
Even then it's a bit off to kill it. They were there first. |
Agree entirely - IIRC it's in that sort of case that they generally relocate them (seen lots of Steve Irwin ventures of that ilk). |
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| beakboo1 Latex RealBird Joined: 20 Sep 2001 Total posts: 5143 Location: Home for bewildered gentlebeaks, St Peter's Close. Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 23-12-2003 16:16 Post subject: |
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| misguidedfool wrote: |
For all we know, it could be an elaborate cover up.
It's probably just my suspicious nature... |
That's exactly what I thought when I heard the news. I'm sure this sort of thing's been done before, in the bush/jungle/at sea to cover up a murder. |
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| escargot1 Joined: 24 Aug 2001 Total posts: 17897 Location: Farkham Hall Age: 4 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 23-12-2003 16:35 Post subject: |
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I heard a bloke on R4 talking about crocs last week, can't remember his name but noted that he
a. is American
b. earned his doctorate by Heimlich-manoeuvring crocodiles to make them vomit so he could learn about what they eat by examining their stomach contents. Some contents were not dead-an otter got up and staggered off!
The point he made was that crocs are extremely hard to catch alive, and not that easy to shoot either. I'm glad it's not my job to nail this one. |
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| Mighty_Emperor Divine Wind
Joined: 18 Aug 2002 Total posts: 19943 Location: Mongo Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 30-12-2003 18:07 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Suspect killer crocodile shot
December 30, 2003
A CROCODILE believed responsible for killing a man in Australia's tropical north last week has been shot and killed by wildlife rangers.
The 3.8m saltwater crocodile was shot around midnight near where 22-year-old Brett Mann was taken in a stretch of the Finniss River, about 80km south-west of Darwin on December 21.
Northern Territory police spokesman John McCourt said it would be some time before it could be said with certainty that it was the crocodile that killed Mann, but it was shot only metres from a tree in which two of his friends took refuge for 22 hours as the croc stalked them.
McCourt said it would take several hours before rangers could retrieve the body of the crocodile and begin the grisly task of determining whether it had killed Mann.
He said the crocodile could have put Mann's body somewhere or may have consumed part of it. The crocodile's stomach would be cut open and its contents examined, he said. |
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8284818%255E1702,00.html
and:
| Quote: | [b]Australian killer crocodile shot
A crocodile that killed a man in Australia's remote Northern Territory is thought to have been shot by wildlife rangers, according to police.
The 3.8 metre (12 feet) saltwater crocodile was found close to where 22-year-old Brett Mann was snatched in the Finniss River on 21 December.
Two friends with him were rescued after climbing a tree to get away.
Officials are confident it was the same crocodile because the creatures are strongly territorial.
Police said it was some time before they could be certain it was the crocodile that had killed Mr Mann.
A police spokesman, John McCourt, said the animals sink after they are shot and then rise to the surface several hours later.
The search for Mr Mann's remains will continue.
The crocodile may have hidden his body, but the contents of its stomach will also be examined to see if the reptile consumed part of it.
"The primary reason for the search was the recovery of the body is so the family can have closure and we remain committed to that," Mr McCourt said.
Mr Mann and two friends, Ashely McGough and Shaun Blowers, had been riding quad bikes in the area when Mr Mann was swept away by the river.
He was snatched by the crocodile, which then stalked his two friends who stayed in a tree for 22 hours, before they were winched to safety by a helicopter.
Saltwater crocodiles are the world's largest reptiles and are aggressive and dangerous.
About 100,000 live in tropical northern Australia.
They are believed to have killed more than a dozen people in the past 20 years. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3356245.stm
See also:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1017970.htm
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/8364779?source=Evening%20Standard |
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| Mighty_Emperor Divine Wind
Joined: 18 Aug 2002 Total posts: 19943 Location: Mongo Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 30-12-2003 18:10 Post subject: |
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Redaing the more detailled report on the killing below (which interestingly differs from the intial reports) makes me wonder how simple it would have been to push someone out into the water...........
| Quote: | 'Croc swam past with Brett in its jaws'
By Frank Thorne in Sydney and Ed Harris, Evening Standard
23 December 2003
They had spent 22 terrifying and exhausting hours clinging to each other in a tree as the crocodile that had dragged their friend to his death circled them.
Ashley McGough and Shaun Blowers, both 19, had to watch in horror as the 13ft creature lifted the lifeless body of their friend Brett Mann, 22, in its jaws below them.
Today, close to tears, the two men spoke of their ordeal which began on Sunday in the northern Australian outback, 50 miles southwest of Darwin.
After the men had spent a day quad-biking, Mr Mann went down to the flooded Finnis river to wash mud off his machine and clothes but slipped into the water and was swept downstream. Suddenly the crocodile surfaced and snatched him.
Mr Blowers said: "Two minutes later, the croc brought Brett to the surface and pretty much showed him off to us. And then off he swam.
"Five minutes later he was back. He swam around the tree and then came round the back and just sat there watching us. Then he went under. Then he'd come up again to make sure we could see him, just being cheeky."
The pair were forced to stay in the tree, fighting to stay awake until Monday morning, when a search and rescue helicopter was sent to look for them. They were winched to safety and taken to hospital.
Shaun's father, Greg Blowers, joined the search and now is anxious to find the body of Mr Mann, whom he treated like a son. He said: "Brett was a lovely bloke and he had the best laugh I'd ever heard. We'll all miss him.
"I just hope the rangers can find it and get our old mate Brett back - and put a bullet in its head, I hope."
His son added: "Brett was a quiet sort of fellow and the best bloke I've ever known."
Mr Blowers, who was discharged from hospital today after treatment for shock and hypothermia, said: "We went to the river to cool off. The river was already swollen, but then it rose dramatically as the tide came in."
The pair could only watch helplessly from the shallows as the salt-water crocodile clamped its powerful jaws around Mr Mann's shoulders and dragged him downstream. They tried to help, but were swept in by the strong current. The two men scrambled up a tree in the middle of the river and clung to each other, knowing that one slip would have seen them fall into the river.
Rangers from the Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service were today working with police to hunt down and shoot the crocodile.
Northern Territory police said the river was "awash" with large salt-water crocodiles and that it was a notorious breeding ground.
Acting Senior Sergeant Garry Casey said the river was flooded with rain from Cyclone Debbie and that the conditions would make the creature difficult to catch.
He described how the crocodile made its attack. "The croc grabbed the 22-year-old by the shoulder and he disappeared under the water.
The other two men managed to get into a tree, which was surrounded by water, before the crocodile returned. For the rest of Sunday evening, through the night and into Monday the crocodile stalked them before help arrived."
He added: "To see their friend taken like that will live with them for the rest of their lives."
Police knew that it was a crocodile-infested river, Mr Casey said, and always took precautions. "We are always careful in that sort of country, as we do quite a lot of patrols in the area. Our guys are always on the alert for crocodiles," he said.
Commander George Owen said low cloud and driving rain had grounded the helicopter while the flooded condition of the Finnis River were too dangerous for boat operations. Mr Owen said the situation would be reassessed. |
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/8306396?source=Evening%20Standard |
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| Kondoru Unfeathered Biped Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Total posts: 5788 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 30-12-2003 18:58 Post subject: |
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It certainly is credible, saltwater crocs are the most dangerous water predator, (with the possible exception of Bull Sharks) they account for hundreds of people in Indonesia each year. I read one report where a woman and two men were by the water, they thought they were safe, because the water was ankle deep for many yards before it grew deeper. the croc crept up, grabbed her and was away before the men who were standing next to her could do anything about it.
Even if you had a gun you wouldnt be safe, they are masters of the ambush. |
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| Anonymous |
| Posted: 02-01-2004 00:43 Post subject: Innocent Until Proven Guilty? |
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 Why? ......why was this animal shot dead? Killed before it has even been established that it is the croc responsible for this young guy's death? Do we shoot people who are just 'suspected' of murdering someone?
As unfortunate and horrifying as this death was, the croc was doing what crocs do! Yep...oh my gosh they actually do not consider we homo sapiens to be exempt from the food chain and/or too superior to be potential din dins for an animal highly evolved, with far more right to be in an aquatic environment than any dopey unwary human. I think the general concensus on this thread is that we all think these local residents should have known better, than to be unwisely for whatever reason venturing near a river, especially a flooded fast flowing body of water KNOWN to be inhabited by extremely effecient dangerous predators. I personally feel very sad this animal had to be shot, just for being an animal and being and doing what comes perfectly naturally. No attempts were even made to relocate it. But why should it be relocated anyway if the area is not usually frequented much by people. How long have we been inhabiting this planet as almost modern humans? Barely a million years ....crocs? Over 65 million! I think they have more right to their freedom to roam and live where they want to than we do!
This includes choosing their daily menu.....just don't put yourself on it.........
Ps...Hi all! Forgot to introduce myself....I'm Breezy your newest member:rolleyes:
Last edited by Guest on 02-01-2004 00:49; edited 1 time in total |
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| Anome_ Faceless Man
Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2002 Total posts: 5380 Location: Left, and to the back. Age: 45 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 02-01-2004 03:09 Post subject: |
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I've said it before, but I pretty much agree with Stu's paraphrase of Billy Connolly's advice.
When you go into a wilderness area, you are pretty much accepting the user agreement on the box: This area contains things that can, and may well, kill you. By entering you are entitling them to do so by virtue of their very nature. There is no guarantee that you will get out alive, particularly if you go doing something stupid, so be careful, and try not to spook the wildlife.
I disagree with the idea that we have no business being in the sea or anything like that. I think we're as entitled to be there as any other creature. The other side of that is the other creatures have the right to do what they have to do to survive, such as eating any tasty morsel that goes past, or using their defensive stingers to kill anything that threatens them, and so on. Remember, to a shark, we're food.
Of course, we're also allowed to defend ourselves, just as anything else is. I don't have a problem with someone killing a shark or a crocodile that is trying to kill them, but I don't think hunting down a shark that has already killed someone really achieves anything other than satisfy some barbaric need for revenge. |
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| escargot1 Joined: 24 Aug 2001 Total posts: 17897 Location: Farkham Hall Age: 4 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 02-01-2004 09:15 Post subject: |
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I believe the reason for killing the croc was an attempt to retrieve its alleged victim's remains.
Haven't heard any news on this yet. |
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