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ENTIANONMULTI Great Old One Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Total posts: 592 Location: Miskatonic University Engineering Department Age: 36 Gender: Male |
 Posted: 09-10-2004 17:20 Post subject: |
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| reading the description it sounds like they have a very limited range from the solar splitter so no awesome breakthrough i wonder how many hours sunlight they need to travel 1 mile. |
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| Anonymous |
| Posted: 09-10-2004 17:30 Post subject: |
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| now look...its not revolutionary and its not new...and it wont produce enough energy to power a truck any distance.... water, ok so that oxygen and hydrogen, craked by electricity from the solar pannels....anyone can make hydrogen and oxygen from water with a battery. just a small problem...it takes a huge amount of energy cos hydrogen really likes to be in water rather than in a test tube and if you decide to store hydrogen ?..how u gona do that? idealy under extreem pressure (which takes more energy than a solar pannel can produce ie liqified, or disolved in paladium dust/pellets (paladium takes 800 times its volume of Hydrogen into its structure, the raer metal that disolves a gas, mercedes were resurching this).... theres not a ballon big enough to power it any distance if the hydrogen is a gas...its just not feasble..that articul was writen by a journo who knows nothing. |
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| Heckler20 The Sockpuppet of
Cthulhu's Prodigal Son Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Total posts: 4702 Location: In the Nostril of The Crawling Chaos Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 17-03-2005 17:35 Post subject: Hydrogen cars by 2012! |
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| Quote: | Hydrogen cars by 2012 says DaimlerChysler
By Lucy Sherriff
Published Thursday 17th March 2005 15:23 GMT
DaimlerChrysler has announced that it will be ready to launch its first hydrogen-powered car by 2012. A company spokesman made the announcement in tandem with Shell Hydrogen at a hydrogen car technology exhibition in Brussels.
The company has already begun tests on 60 Mercedes A-class vehicles in Japan, Germany, Singapore and the US, according to Reuters. The test car uses fuel cell technology to generate its power. The main benefit of using hydrogen is that it is a totally clean fuel: when it is burned it leaves behind only air and water, making it an environmentally attractive alternative to the petrol engine. It would also provide an alternative to petrol as oil supplies diminish.
There are still several obstacles that need to be overcome before hydrogen-powered cars become a reality, however. Firstly, there is the question of cleanly generating enough hydrogen to power the cars. If you need a power station to obtain the hydrogen in the first place, there is no net environmental gain from switching fuels, after all.
Then there is the problem of finding a way to store the gas. It needs to be safe, in small enough cases to fit cars, and in sufficient quantities to make it worth switching the engine on. Other issues such as reliability (will the engine run in the cold etc) and the cost of production still remain to be solved.
Jeremy Bentham, Shell Hydrogen's chief executive said that energy companies would start rolling out hydrogen filling stations when there was customer demand. He acknowledged that hydrogen-powered cars could be attractive to consumers and said his job was to be prepared for that business, Reuters reports. He added that if Europe were to switch to Hydrogen as its main fuel source for its cars, it would need 50 million tons of hydrogen per year to meet demand.
Fuel cell technology has also been touted as a possible alternative to lithium-ion batteries for cell phones and PDAs. ® |
Source : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/17/hydrogen_cars/
Does this mean we start fighting wars for water in the future instead of oil? |
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| Mighty_Emperor Divine Wind
Joined: 18 Aug 2002 Total posts: 19943 Location: Mongo Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 18-03-2005 03:56 Post subject: |
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I've merged a few thread son hydrogen power to make this thread.
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Another report on the above topic
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And in related news:
| Quote: | Revolutionary bike 'too quiet'
The world's first purpose-built hydrogen-powered bike could be fitted with an artificial "vroom" because of worries its silence might be dangerous.
A prototype of the motorbike, which could cost more than $8,300 (£4,500), was unveiled in London on Tuesday.
The problem with the "fuel cell" bike, which produces no polluting emissions, is that it is too quiet.
But anti-noise campaigners said they welcomed the prospect of a motorbike without the usual excruciating roar.
For their part, manufacturers said the fake engine noise device, which could be switched off, would help alert road users.
The motorbike, known as an Emissions Neutral Vehicle (ENV), has a top speed of 50mph (80km/h), a range of at least 100 miles (160km) and can run continuously for four hours before the fuel cell needs recharging.
Its water-vapour emissions are so clean that they are drinkable, according to its designers.
Mobile energy source
But with a noise emission equivalent to an everyday home computer, motorcycle enthusiasts thought the "exhilaration" factor was missing.
"They can add all the noise they want, it will still lack the va-va-voom serious motorcyclists look for," Jeff Stone of the British Motorcyclists Federation told the BBC.
Concerns were raised that the motorcycle was too silent and might not be noticed by other traffic and pedestrians.
Harry Bradbury, chief executive of the bike's British manufacturers Intelligent Energy, said: "What we are doing is introducing flexibility into it, so that you can have ambient noise that is tolerable - low-level noise sufficient for safety reasons - but which can be switched off when desired."
Peter Wakeham, director of the Noise Abatement Society, who said motorbikes were among the worst noise offenders, welcomed the idea of a quiet bike.
"But it kind of defeats the purpose of designing a silent bike only to then add an artificial noise device," he said.
Dr Bradbury said the bike's detachable briefcase-size cell filled with high pressure hydrogen, or "core", could eventually be used as a mobile energy source, with the same cell used to power different objects.
He said the prospect of producing mobile hydrogen energy from a variety of sources, including crops such as soya or sugar cane, could benefit remote communities or developing countries, where large electric grids were not economically viable.
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Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/4353853.stm
Published: 2005/03/16 14:13:10 GMT
© BBC MMV |
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| lopaka3 Great Old One Joined: 17 Sep 2001 Total posts: 2154 Location: Near the corner of a Big Continent Gender: Male |
| Posted: 18-03-2005 17:59 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
There are still several obstacles that need to be overcome before hydrogen-powered cars become a reality, however. Firstly, there is the question of cleanly generating enough hydrogen to power the cars. If you need a power station to obtain the hydrogen in the first place, there is no net environmental gain from switching fuels, after all.
Then there is the problem of finding a way to store the gas. It needs to be safe, in small enough cases to fit cars, and in sufficient quantities to make it worth switching the engine on. Other issues such as reliability (will the engine run in the cold etc) and the cost of production still remain to be solved.
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Doesn't it seem that those are some pretty significant obstacles to overcome in seven years? Not just to figure them out, but to design, produce and market a car based on having solved those problems.
I'm about the dumbest person you could find when it comes anything remotely mechanical or engineering oriented, and I'm not sure why they would announce it if it wasn't a done deal, but this seems to be either a lot bigger or smaller deal than it appears to me at first blush.
Am I making my confusion clear here? |
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| colinbaker32 Great Old One Joined: 19 Mar 2009 Total posts: 223 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 16-04-2009 14:28 Post subject: Hydrogen Powered Cars (and will it helpbring concorde back?) |
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Did anyone see the last episode of top gear a few months ago when they tested the hydrogen powered car from honda that you can buy in america?
You fill it up with liquid hydrogen (which takes 5 mins) and it drives like a normal petrol car and has the same range
When methods for refining liquid hydrogen are improved and it is cheaper then fuel could be cheaper and limitless
Of course the government will tax it they need the revenue
If this technology can be used in airplane engines then we could afford to run concorde again (build some more I say) |
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| Ffalstaf Great Old One Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Total posts: 161 Location: Blue Mountains, NSW Gender: Male |
| Posted: 17-04-2009 02:47 Post subject: |
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I don't watch Top Gear but I like the idea of hydrogen fuel cells. However, Wikipedia reckons Ford and Renault-Nissan have dropped their hydrogen car plans, while Nissan, Daimler and Hyundai are going with fuel cell cars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle |
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| Mythopoeika Boring petty conservative
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Total posts: 9109 Location: Not far from Bedford Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 17-04-2009 11:46 Post subject: |
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I think BMW unveiled a liquid hydrogen car a couple of years ago. Along with the car, they were selling a hydrogen bottling machine that could extract hydrogen from water, and then put it into pressurised containers.
Like you say, colinbaker32, I'm sure governments wouldn't be very happy about people making it themselves at home, so they would find a way to tax it. |
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| river_styx Chaos Magnet.
Pain Joined: 08 Feb 2002 Total posts: 2146 Location: Between Here aaaaaaand....There. Age: 35 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 17-04-2009 13:55 Post subject: |
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My question is this:
If all they produce as waste material is water then where does all that excess water go? Won't we be drowning in H2O rather than CO2? |
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| Mythopoeika Boring petty conservative
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Total posts: 9109 Location: Not far from Bedford Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 17-04-2009 17:15 Post subject: |
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| river_styx wrote: | My question is this:
If all they produce as waste material is water then where does all that excess water go? Won't we be drowning in H2O rather than CO2? |
 Are you being serious?
It just comes out as water on the ground. Anyway, it started out as water in the first place.
Reminds me of a discussion on this same topic I had with someone years ago. He thought that converting water into hydrogen would deplete the world's oceans. Well, I suppose it would if you let all that hydrogen boil off into space instead of burning it, and you'd have to do that for centuries.  |
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| river_styx Chaos Magnet.
Pain Joined: 08 Feb 2002 Total posts: 2146 Location: Between Here aaaaaaand....There. Age: 35 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 17-04-2009 17:44 Post subject: |
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| I just didn't know where they were taking the hydrogen from. My understanding was that they extracted it from here, there and everywhere and to me that implied hydrogen would be mined and turned into water. I know it might not be the most sophisticated question but from what I do know hyrdogen isn't just found in water and is the most abundant element in the universe. Therefore, if we are taking hydrogen from the atomsphere or any place else that it doesn't currently exist as water, then whatever it produces as an output liquid is extra to what is currently there.Aand once it is on the ground doesn't it rejoin the great water cycle in the sky all over again? |
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| Mythopoeika Boring petty conservative
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Total posts: 9109 Location: Not far from Bedford Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 17-04-2009 20:50 Post subject: |
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Actually, you have a point there.
I'm not sure, but I think hydrogen is currently extracted from natural gas, but that will have to change if everybody starts using hydrogen cars. There is not enough natural gas left to support this.
The only viable alternative is electrolysis from water, but that will require the building of lots of power stations.
AFAIK, hydrogen can't be extracted in vast quantities from the atmosphere, as it tends to rise and eventually disappears into space. |
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| Peripart is only passing through
Great Old One Joined: 01 Aug 2005 Total posts: 3851 Age: 45 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 17-04-2009 22:28 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen Powered Cars (and will it helpbring concorde ba |
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| colinbaker32 wrote: | | If this technology can be used in airplane engines then we could afford to run concorde again (build some more I say) |
Can't see that happening. There are any number of groups, notably Virgin, who have expressed willingness to get Concorde airborne again, using the current technology, but BA won't have it. Basically, it's their toy, and if they can't play with it, no-one else will. Fancy new fuels will make no difference. |
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| river_styx Chaos Magnet.
Pain Joined: 08 Feb 2002 Total posts: 2146 Location: Between Here aaaaaaand....There. Age: 35 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 18-04-2009 12:03 Post subject: |
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| Mythopoeika wrote: | Actually, you have a point there.
I'm not sure, but I think hydrogen is currently extracted from natural gas, but that will have to change if everybody starts using hydrogen cars. There is not enough natural gas left to support this.
The only viable alternative is electrolysis from water, but that will require the building of lots of power stations.
AFAIK, hydrogen can't be extracted in vast quantities from the atmosphere, as it tends to rise and eventually disappears into space. |
So I'm not a dunce after all?! Phew!
I'm sure it will still be better than smelly old petroleum giving us all cancer. I'm just hung up on the thought that if we extract it from water then we're left with some excess oxygen (giant insects? Yay!). Although we could always pass that on the healthcare community and special tents at Glastonbury.
I know it's quite a fiddly process getting that hydrogen unstuck from everything, it's such a slut, and has no sense of self. The other possibility is ramscoops up in space. Imagine, hydrogen processing plants in orbit around the planet. |
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| Mythopoeika Boring petty conservative
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Total posts: 9109 Location: Not far from Bedford Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 18-04-2009 12:32 Post subject: |
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| river_styx wrote: | | I'm sure it will still be better than smelly old petroleum giving us all cancer. I'm just hung up on the thought that if we extract it from water then we're left with some excess oxygen (giant insects? Yay!). |
Giant insects will be the new food source that will save humanity! Errr... yay? |
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