FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages 
Lost tribe of Israel...
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Earth Mysteries - historical and classical cases
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Professional Surrealist
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Total posts: 1385
Location: Behind your eyes...
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 26-08-2007 12:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps this should be in another thread, but...

Leeds University Union has had problems with the Jewish Religion/Jewish Race debate.

In LUU religious societies are classed differently to secular ones - I don't know the ins-and-outs of it but I imagine it is to do with funding as most religious societies have costs covered by their religious institution (for example the Catholic Society uses a local church free of charge rather than hiring a venue).

The problem arose because JSOC (Jewish Society) staged a demonstration against the Free Palistine Society whos members include many of of ISOC (Islamic Society) who had a lecture with a pro-palestine rabbi from a minority group.

No one was sure whether JSOC were holding a political protest (as is allowed) or a religous protest (which is not-allowed because it contravines incitement to religious hatred laws).

JSOC themselves couldn't decide what they were doing. The FPSoc maintained it was a political debate that just happened to consist mainly of ISOC members.
Back to top
View user's profile 
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Total posts: 9
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 15-11-2007 21:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of being Jewish through the female line, my understanding of the subject is that Pre-Biblical Hebrew society was originally matriachal, as were many early societies. Females were believed to be the more important sex as they were seen as the "creators" of new life (think of those stone age Venus figures). Over time, Hebrew society went from a de-centralized rural one where women were the leaders both spiritual and material, to a centralized male oriented society with authority placed in the hands of the King, and the male priesthood. Over the subsequent centuries most of the female oriented traditions were either sullied, or removed completely from Hebrew society (strange how similar things happened with early Christianity), with the inheritance of "Jewishness" through the female line being one of the few survivors.
Back to top
View user's profile 
Resistance is futile!
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Total posts: 171
Location: out of my mind, thank you!
Age: 59
Gender: Female
PostPosted: 22-11-2007 15:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

RubberRonnie, that makes sense!!

Good post, and welcome to FT Forums!! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile 
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Total posts: 9
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 01-12-2007 19:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem. Nice to be here ( be here, nice).
Back to top
View user's profile 
Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Total posts: 21827
Location: Dublin
Age: 0
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 29-01-2010 12:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

‘Lost Tribe’ On Fast Track To Israel
By Jonathan Cook

28 January, 2010

Nazareth: The Israeli government is reported to have quietly approved the fast-track immigration of 7,000 members of a supposedly “lost Jewish” tribe, known as the Bnei Menashe, currently living in a remote area of India.

Under the plan, the “lost Jews” would be brought to Israel over the next two years by right-wing and religious organisations who, critics are concerned, will seek to place them in West Bank settlements in a bid to foil Israel’s partial agreement to a temporary freeze of settlement growth.

A previous attempt to bring the Bnei Menashe to Israel was halted in 2003 by Avraham Poraz, the interior minister at the time, after it became clear that most of the 1,500 who had arrived were being sent to extremist settlements, including in the Gaza Strip and next to Hebron, the large Palestinian city in the West Bank.

Dror Etkes, who monitors settlement growth for Yesh Din, an Israeli human rights group, said there were strong grounds for suspecting that some of the new Bnei Menashe would end up in the settlements, too.

“There is a mutual interest being exploited here,” he said. “The Bnei Menashe get help to make aliyah [immigration] while the settlements get lots of new arrivals to bolster their numbers, including in settlements close to Palestinian areas where most Israelis would not want to venture.”

The government’s decision, leaked this month to Ynet, Israel’s biggest news website, was made possible by a ruling in 2005 by Shlomo Amar, one of Israel’s two chief rabbis, that the Bnei Menashe are one of 10 lost Jewish tribes, supposedly exiled from the Middle East 2,700 years ago.

He ordered a team of rabbis to go to north-east India to begin preparing Bnei Menashe who identified themselves as Jews for conversion to the strictest stream of Judaism, Orthodoxy, so they would qualify to immigrate to Israel under the Law of Return.

The Bnei Menashe belong to an ethnic group called the Shinlung, who number more than one million and live mainly in the states of Manipur and Mizoram, close to the border with Myanmar. They were converted from animism to Christianity by British missionaries a century ago, but a small number claim to have kept an ancient connection to Judaism.

DNA samples taken from the Bnei Menashe have failed so far to establish any common ancestry to Jews.

The immigration of the Bnei Menashe following Mr Amar’s ruling was quickly halted after the foreign minstry expressed concerns that it was causing a diplomatic falling out with India, which has laws against missionary activity.

Ophir Pines-Paz, the interior minister in 2005, who opposed what he called the “clandestine” arrival of the Bnei Menashe, said in an interview last week: “I was against a policy that sends [Jewish] immigrants to the settlements. I hope that could not be the case today with a settlement freeze in place. I want to believe that is the case.”

However, the Bnei Menashe have won two powerful right-wing sponsors: Shavei Israel, led by Michael Freund, a former assistant to Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister; and a religious group known as the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, which draws on wide support from evangelical Christians in the United States.

Mr Freund began lobbying for the immigration of the Bnei Menashe to Israel while he was an adviser to Mr Netanyahu during his previous premiership, in the late 1990s. Mr Freund is believed to have used his connections in the current government to push the group’s case again.

Arik Puder, a spokesman for Shavei Israel, refused to comment, saying the organisation had decided to keep “a low profile” on the decision to bring the Bnei Menashe to Israel. It is believed that Shavei Israel is concerned that the government may come under pressure to reverse its decision if there is too much public scrutiny.

According to Ynet, Israel is planning to avoid diplomatic complications with India by sending groups of Bnei Menashe to Nepal for a fast-track conversion.

The brand of Judaism the Bnei Menashe have been exposed to during their “Jewish education” in special camps in India was indicated by Rabbi Eliyahu Avichail, who has worked closely with the tribe since the early 1980s. He said he believed in the biblical prophecy of a coming apocalypse – one shared by “End of Days” evangelical Christians – in which “all the world is against Israel” in a battle to be decided in Jerusalem.

“I believe we are very close to the time when the Messiah will arrive and we must prepare by making sure that all the Jews are in the Land of Israel. There are more than six million among the lost tribes and they must be brought to Israel as a matter of urgency.”

Shimon Gangte, 33, who was helped by Mr Avichail to come to Israel 13 years ago, is among 500 Bnei Menashe living in Kiryat Arba, an extremist settlement whose armed inhabitants regularly clash with Palestinians in neighbouring Hebron. He said: “It is important that the 10 tribes are brought here because the time of the Messiah is near.”

Mr Gangte added that the Bnei Menashe were attracted to the West Bank because life was cheaper in the settlements than in Israel and the settlers “give us help finding housing, jobs and schools for our children”.

Mr Etkes of Yesh Din said “past experience” fed suspicions that the Bnei Menashe would be encouraged to settle deep in the West Bank, adding that the so-called settlement freeze, insisted on by the United States as a prelude to renewed peace talks, was having little effect on the ground.

“There is no freeze because it is being violated all the time. The settlers had lots of time to prepare for the freeze and spent the four to five months before it in a frenzy of construction activity.”

Shavei Israel lobbies for other groups of Jews to be brought to Israel, including communities in Spain, Portugal, Italy, South America, Russia, Poland and China.

Israeli peace groups were outraged in 2002 when Shavei Israel placed a group of 100 Peruvian immigrants, whose ancestors converted to Judaism 50 years ago, in the Gush Etzion settlement bloc in the West Bank.
Back to top
View user's profile 
Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Total posts: 21827
Location: Dublin
Age: 0
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 29-11-2013 14:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the Celts one of the ten lost tribes of Israel?
Evidence that the lost Dan tribe may have reached Ireland
By JAMES O'SHEA, IrishCentral Staff Writer
Published Friday, November 29, 2013, 7:41 AM
Updated Friday, November 29, 2013, 7:41 AM

Modern artists use the "scales of justice" to represent the Tribe of Dan due to Genesis 49:16 referencing Dan judging his people.
Photo by Google Images

There is a theory that the Celts are descended from one of the ten lost tribes of Israel, the tribe of Dan.

Proponents of this theory on Wikipedia, in historical essays and elsewhere point to various parallels between Irish and ancient Hebrew culture. For example, they note that the harp, the symbol of Ireland, also plays a role in Jewish history, as the musical instrument of King David.

Some maintain that the tribe of Dan, known for its seafaring, conducted sea voyages to Ireland and colonized it as early as the period of the Judges in the 7th century BC under the name Tuatha Dé Danann.

Scholar Janet Moser writes: "There are certain facts that suggest that the Celts might have derived from a Jewish tradition from the East. The Celtic body of ecclesiastical and civil knowledge was Druidism. Their system can be traced to about 1800 B.C...”

In 'The Psalter of Cashel' an ancient text written by Saint Cormac it states that: 'The Tuatha de Danaan' ruled in Ireland for about two centuries, and were highly skilled in architecture and other arts from their long residence in Greece.'

The Tuatha de Danaan were the descendants of Danaus, the son of Belus, who went with his fifty daughters to Argos, the home of his ancestor Io. In Irish legends the Tuatha de Danaan, who were considered to be demi-gods, ...were said to have possessed a ...Grail-like vessel... These teachers of wisdom ... were the founders of the Druidic priesthood."

Were they connected back to the tribes of Israel? As part of the kingdom of Israel, the territory of Dan was conquered by the Assyrians, and the Dan were exiled; the manner of their exile led to their further history being lost.

Soon after the Celtic tribe appeared in Europe leading to speculation that the Celts were the tribe of Dan.

According to the Hebrew Bible, following the completion of the conquest of Canaan by the Israelite tribes after about 1200 BC, Joshua allocated the land among the twelve tribes. Dan was allocated the most northerly region, to the north of the Galilee, and west of the Jordan, stretching north as far as Laish, Dan's main city (which became known as Dan). (Joshua 19:40-4Cool

In the Biblical census of the Book of Numbers, the tribe of Dan is portrayed as the second largest Israelite tribe (after Judah).Some textual scholars regard the census as being from the Priestly Source, dating it to around the 7th century BC. Following the conquest of the land by Joshua until the formation of the first Kingdom of Israel in 1050 BC, the Tribe of Dan was a part of a loose confederation of Israelite tribes. No central government existed, and in times of crisis the people were led by ad hoc leaders known as Judges.

With the growth of the threat from Philistine incursions, the Israelite tribes decided to form a strong centralised monarchy to meet the challenge, and the Tribe of Dan joined the new kingdom with Saul as the first king.

After the death of Saul, all the tribes other than Judah remained loyal to the House of Saul, but after the death of Ish-bosheth, Saul's son and successor to the throne of Israel, the Tribe of Dan joined the other northern Israelite tribes in making David, who was then the king of Judah, king of a re-united Kingdom of Israel. However, on the accession of Rehoboam, David's grandson, in c. 930 BC the northern tribes split from the House of David to reform a Kingdom of Israel as the Northern Kingdom.

The most celebrated Danite was Samson, who some suggest is derived from Danyen tribal legends. The anti-Christ is also said to be a member of the tribe of Dan.

Modern artists use the "scales of justice" to represent the Tribe of Dan due to Genesis 49:16 referencing Dan judging his people. However, more traditional artists use a snake to represent Dan, based on Genesis 49:17.

Their primary trade characteristic was seafaring, unusual for the Israelite tribes.In the Song of Deborah the tribe is said to have stayed on their ships with their belongings. As part of the Kingdom of Israel, the territory of Dan was conquered by the Assyrians, and the tribe exiled; the manner of their exile led to their further history being lost.

Did they reappear as the Tuatha De Dannan or later the Celts? The truth is lost in the mists of time.

Read more:
Follow us: @IrishCentral on Twitter | IrishCentral on Facebook
Back to top
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Earth Mysteries - historical and classical cases All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group