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sunsplash1Offline
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PostPosted: 16-11-2004 05:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psst... There's a PM gang for Atlantean heckling...
Smile
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Mighty_EmperorOffline
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PostPosted: 18-11-2004 01:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunsplash: Sweet - I'm in. If there isn't one for impreganting impresionable hippies I'll start one.

-----------------
Anyway reproduction of a posting by Benny Peiser:

Quote:
SWALLOWING THE GREAT ATLANTIS HOAX: THE INEVITABLE DEBACLE OF UNBALANCED SCIENCE REPORTING

Benny Peiser <b.j.peiser@livjm.ac.uk>

It was bound to happen again. After this summer's media headlines about 'UFO crash caused Tunguska disaster', the mainstream media (MSM) has fallen once again for a scientific hoax and swallowed every word of it hook, line and sinker. This morning, the world's chief media outlets (Reuters, AP, AFP, PA) to name just the major press agencies report that Robert Sarmast, an American architect and amateur explorer, has discovered the mythological island of Atlantis off the coast of Cyprus.

Of course, the 'discovery' of Atlantis has been announced thousands of times. The latest one is not entirely new either. Mr Sarmast, "a self-proclaimed mythologist" (The Daily Telegraph), published his theory more than a year ago. At the time, he predicted that his next expedition would actually discover the lost island: "This is going to rewrite the history books. We are set to make the biggest archaeological discovery of all time." And bingo, the self-fulfilling prophecy has become a much celebrated media reality reported around the world!

Mr Sarmast claims that images taken by deep water sonar scanning 'indicate' man-made structures, including a 3-kilometer-long wall at a depth of 1,500 meter. However, his selective interpretation is nothing more than the blinkered reading of very ambiguous and unconvincing images. Anyone with a critical eye can pick out that these images are far too vague and uncertain to be regarded as compelling evidence for any man-made structures.

Mr Sarmast's scam was roundly rejected last year by Despo Pilides, an archaeologist at the Department of Antiquities in Cyprus: "This latest theory should be taken with a very large pinch of salt. Archaeologists only work with hard evidence. There is no evidence whatsoever to give credence to this hypothesis and we have no intention of investigating it."

The unreserved dismissal is not only due to the lack of *any* empirical evidence. The very foundation on which the hoax is based is completely bogus. According his theory, Mr Sarmast claims that the Mediterranean basin was 'flooded in a deluge around 9,000 BC which submerged a rectangular land mass he believes was Atlantis...' The problem is: there is no evidence whatsoever for any large-scale flooding of the Mediterranean basin at that time. In fact, the break of a once existing barrier at the Strait of Gibraltar that separated the Atlantic Ocean form the Mediterranean Sea occurred some 5.4 million ago - and not at the end of the ice age!

It the past, Atlantis discoveries used to be treated with a high degree of scepticism and essentially left to the fringe and New Age media. Today, it almost looks as if large sections of the mainstream media have become the new outlets for sensationalist pseudo-science. Radical environmentalists have called upon the media to abandon all balanced science reporting because impartial journalism would give sceptics too much credibility. The media's Atlantis debacle is a clear and disturbing indication where uninhibited science journalism could end once the shackles of even-handedness and scepticism are shaken off for good.

Benny Peiser
Liverpool
15 November 2004


Most of the rest is reproductions from news reports (some of which are reproduced here):
http://anthropology.tamu.edu/downloads/AtlantisHoax.htm

Benny Peiser? Who he???

Quote:
Benny Peiser is a UK social anthropologist, and a believer in scientific progress' ability to help us work our way round ecological disasters. Popular in the media as he is an "expert" on near-earth asteroids.

"Apocalyptics typically exaggerate the possible dangers we may face in the future while ignoring or underestimating the probability of finding a social, technological or medical remedy for the predicament." [1]

* Senior Lecturer in Social Anthropology & Sport Sociology, Liverpool John Moores University
* Main research interests:
o societal evolution and neo-catastrophism
o social implications of historical impact disasters and the current impact hazard
o ritualised and sanctioned violence
o origins and evolution of sport


www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Benny_Peiser

If you do a search here for him you'll find 4 (now 5) threads mainly meteors, NEAR, Tunguska, etc.
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Mighty_EmperorOffline
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PostPosted: 18-11-2004 01:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a more important question:

Quote:
How Often Is Atlantis Discovered?

The lost city that's always being found.
By Brendan I. Koerner

Posted Tuesday, Nov. 16, 2004, at 4:01 PM PT

American architect-turned-archaeologist Robert Sarmast claims to have discovered the lost city of Atlantis, off the southeast coast of Cyprus. Sarmast says his latest sonar readings reveal submerged walls that closely resemble those described by Plato, the first person to ever mention Atlantis in print. In Timaeus, written around 360 B.C., the renowned philosopher portrayed Atlantis as "a great and wonderful empire" that was destroyed by earthquakes and floods in a 24-hour span. How many times have researchers previously claimed to have discovered the vanished island-state?

Oodles—and that's not even counting the numerous psychics and crackpot "Atlantologists" who've placed the city everywhere from Nicaragua to Ceylon. The hunt began in earnest in the early 19th century, when Guatemalan Dr. Paul Felix Cabrera proposed that Hispaniola—the island where Haiti and the Dominican Republic are now found—was the site of Atlantis. Several researchers—such as the husband-and-wife team of Augustus Le Plongeon and Alice Dixon—speculated that Atlantis had been located near Mexico, based on their interpretation of Mayan codices that supposedly mentioned a lost island continent. The Mayans, the theory went, had interacted with the ancient Egyptians, who in turn passed the tale of Atlantis down to the ancient Greeks. This line of conjecture has been discredited over the years, in part because of a lack of physical evidence, and in part because it later became obvious that the early Mayanologists didn't fully understand the culture's complex hieroglyphs.

The world went atwitter in 1912 when a man calling himself Paul Schliemann published an article titled "How I Found the Lost Atlantis" in William Randolph Hearst's New York American. Schliemann claimed to be the grandson of Heinrich Schliemann, the archaeologist who excavated Troy. He wrote that his grandfather had passed down Trojan artifacts that revealed Atlantis' true location, submerged in the Atlantic Ocean between Europe and the United States. (The Azores were supposedly the tips of Atlantean mountains.) Schliemann disappeared soon after the publication of his fantastic account, however, and it's now widely viewed as one of the great "yellow journalism" hoaxes.

The British explorer Col. Percy Harrison Fawcett thought he'd solved the mystery in the 1920s, when he argued that Atlantis might have been located in the rain forests of Brazil. (He apparently based this belief on a stone idol he was given as a gift, which had reputedly come from a lost city in the Amazon.) Fawcett embarked on an expedition to find Atlantis in 1925, delving deep into the Brazilian back country; he was never seen again.

Almost a half-century later, a pair of reputable archaeologists, A.G. Galanopoulos and Edward Bacon, published Atlantis: The Truth Behind the Legend, which suggested that Atlantis was, in fact, the Greek island of Santorini. The island's Minoan population, they noted, was likely wiped out by a massive volcanic eruption circa 1450 B.C., a cataclysm that may have inspired Plato's tales of Atlantis being wiped out by floods. (Tsunamis, or gigantic tidal waves, are a direct aftereffect of volcanic eruptions that occur near water.)

A Soviet oceanographer added his own theory to the pile in 1979, when he charted a sunken plateau about 560 miles off the western coast of Portugal. He claimed to have "spotted almost clearly half-demolished walls and giant stairs" and added that the geological shape of the site closely paralleled that described by Plato. The last word came in 1985, when a piece of marble recovered from the ocean was supposedly being taken to the Soviet Academy of Sciences for top-level analysis. And that, apparently, was the end of the Soviets' involvement in the search.

The past year has been a particularly active one for Atlantologists. Aside from Sarmast's discovery, a German physicist, Rainer Kuehne, claimed in June that Atlantis was merely a region in southern Spain, near Cadiz. He based his conclusion on satellite imagery, which reveals a large marshy area surrounded by what appears to be concentric rings of Earth or water—geographic details that Plato noted.

Another European scientist, Swedish geographer Ulf Erlingsson, argued earlier this year that Atlantis wasn't near the Mediterranean at all but was actually Ireland. He says the Emerald Isle's size syncs up nicely with Plato's estimate and that the destruction myth was inspired by the submerging of Dogger Bank, a North Sea shoal, around 6100 B.C.


http://slate.msn.com/id/2109823/
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Mighty_EmperorOffline
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PostPosted: 24-11-2004 02:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Hoax Detective

November 23, 2004
By JOHN JURGENSEN, Courant Staff Writer

Have you heard?

The lost land of Atlantis has been discovered. Again.

In a press conference last week, a U.S. researcher named Robert Sarmast announced that his six-day expedition had detected evidence of man-made structures on the Mediterranean seabed off Cyprus. Not only had sonar scanners picked up the ghostly contours of walls and trenches on a rectangular landmass, he said, but these features matched the descriptions in the original account of Atlantis.

In the years before he died in 347 B.C., the Greek philosopher Plato wrote about Atlantis as a wildly advanced civilization that was wiped out in a flash 9,000 years before his time.

"We cannot yet provide tangible proof in the form of bricks and mortar, as the artifacts are still buried under several meters of sediment," Sarmast said in an accompanying press release, "but the circumstantial and other evidence is now irrefutable."

When he read about this declaration on the BBC's website, Kenneth Feder didn't even have to get out of his desk chair to dispute it.

An archaeologist who has taught at Central Connecticut State University for more than 25 years, Feder rejects Sarmast's claim and the countless others that have come before it with the same simple argument - namely, that Atlantis' only location was in the imagination of the man who first described it.

But that rationale hasn't prevented Feder from using the myth for his own purposes.

"My agenda is to use this stuff to teach what we really know about the past," he says.

Feder, who lives in West Simsbury, focuses most of his own field work along the Farmington River, unearthing evidence of the Indians and settlers who subsisted there. But through the years, Feder has nurtured an expertise in historical hooey on the side.

First published in 1990, his book "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology" is about to go into its fifth edition. Last month he lectured on Atlantis at a gathering of skeptics in Italy. And he holds forth on the watery mystery in a documentary scheduled for broadcast at 10 p.m. Wednesday on the National Geographic Channel program "Naked Science."

Tucked in his stuffed campus office where the "Donner Party Cookbook" sits on a shelf below a cartoon of a pre-human Homer Simpson, Feder says he makes one demand of Atlantis enthusiasts.

"My rule is you can't even use the word Atlantis in a sentence unless you can tell me you've read Plato."

The legend of the lost continent emerges in dialogues between Socrates and his students that Plato wrote down. The point that many people miss, Feder says, is that most of these instructive dialogues were fictional, like conversations between characters in a play.

"Atlantis is a plot device. Plato has a very specific agenda in his mind, and he needs Atlantis to prove what he's trying to say," Feder says.

The student Critias tells his teacher the "true" story of the powerful but morally corrupt land of Atlantis, which goes to war with the weak but noble Athens. The evil empire gets whipped in battle by its worthier opponent before eventually getting swallowed in a cataclysm of floods and eruptions,

"That is the Atlantis story told by Plato," Feder says. "It's `Star Wars' circa 350 B.C."

That's the line that a producer wanted Feder to use in a documentary a few years ago. But there was a catch. Would Feder be willing to tailor his yarn to make Atlantis seem real? Or at least leave its existence open-ended?

Feder refused and soon discovered that the "documentary film" was in fact a glorified advertisement for the 2001 animated Disney movie "Atlantis: The Lost Empire." Feder says several of his colleagues who had signed on unwittingly later watched in horror as their drastically edited words were spliced with cartoon scenes of underwater action.

But maybe that kind of appropriation explains why the legend still lingers. Severed long ago from the context that a famous Greek gave it, Atlantis becomes a ghost story, a lost treasure, a mysterious monster.

"For a lot of people, this would just be really cool if it were true," Feder says. "It would be really cool if Bigfoot were real. I don't really know that it is or isn't, but it's cool to tell stories about it at 2 in the morning."

The big legends wax and wane with the years. The Bermuda Triangle. Ancient astronauts. The UFO encounters at Roswell. But Feder thinks he's seen an increase in people's belief in the unbelievable.

The professor often starts new classes with a survey, asking students about their take on certain aspects of history. Twenty years ago, about 30 percent of his students said that Atlantis existed. But by 2000, almost half of the surveyed students were believers.

"I think that pattern directly reflects how many documentaries on [pseudoscientific subjects] show up on television, especially cable TV," Feder says.

Whether the media drives public interest or vice versa, it's obvious that legends like Atlantis will always hold cultural currency.

Perhaps that's why Robert Sarmast, who gave up a career in architecture to pursue Atlantis, rushed to announce his findings to the international press instead of trying to publish them in a peer-reviewed journal, the only way to secure credibility in the scientific community.

"I'm going to assume that the guy's honest and sincere and he really thinks there's this connection," Feder says of Sarmast. "But for anyone looking at it from the outside, there just isn't enough information."

But the mere mention of Atlantis is enough to tingle the curiosity of even the staunchest skeptics.

"If this guy simply said, `Oh, we found some interesting artifacts and features off the coast of Cyprus,' you wouldn't be here asking me about it."


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MaxMolyneuxOffline
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PostPosted: 28-06-2005 22:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

rynner wrote:
Hancock's "Underworld" has loads of info on all of the above!

The Cayce prediction was 'fulfilled' when some Cayce supporters discovered the 'Bimini road', underwater in the Bahamas. Still much debate about what this really is, but it looks artificial to me.

The scientific evidence shows that the sea level rise after the last ice age was not steady (which would have been just centimetres per year), but happened in 3 major phases.


Didn't Edgar Cayce say that Atlantis had 3 disasters, Could that be invloved with the 3 major floods you mentioned in the post.


Most I've read on Atlantis is a few articles and those Plato dialogues I read online. Also read Edgar Cayce on Atlantis.

Edgar Cayce sounded like a good person though.

Old Thread I know but I like reading about Atlantis. Wink

Edgar Cayce said he also got his Information about things like Atlantis from the akashic records.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 08-07-2005 18:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I just say as someone of Portuguese/Cape Verdean descent that I have been to Cape Verde and the sorrounding islands. And it is obvious that Cape Verde, as well as the Azores, Madeira and the Canary Islands and all of these places are A) Mountainous...basically, they are inhabited MOUNTAINS B) they are all broken up into smaller islands with parts that have been submerged for perhaps, thousands of years and C) A lot of the wildlife is NOT indigenous to the areas.
I have harbored the possibility that these islands are all that is left of one big submerged island that once sat between North American and Africa.
It would have been VERY easy for the victims of an Atlantis-like island in that area to escape to either North America, Africa, or even India...etc.
It is not impossible and it would explain a lot of geological factors as well, like the fact that Cape Verde is relatively dry and experience periodic droughts and is Volcanic...as well as the other places mentioned.
Just a thought.
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MaxMolyneuxOffline
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PostPosted: 10-07-2005 14:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points there. yeay
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many_angled_oneOffline
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PostPosted: 21-07-2005 10:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

the thing that irks me is when people claim to have found Atlantis at various places all around the world, even in the meditaranean itself.

If you take the story of Atlantis at face value then the same story says it lies beyond Gibralter and out into the Atlantic. You cant just selectively choose a diferent location that disagrees with the source material which is after all your only source on Atlantis.
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TheNumber47Offline
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PostPosted: 21-07-2005 17:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

unless of course you do an amazing job of explaining why Plato was wrong about the location but amazingly accurate about everything else.
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SameOldVardoger
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PostPosted: 26-07-2005 13:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is NO evidence for Atlantis beside Plato's story why waste time trying to find it?

If there existed a Atlantis there should have been survivor stories from all over the world.
Some people would of course survive this catastrophe.
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SameOldVardoger
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PostPosted: 26-07-2005 14:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this interesting link about a map of Atlantis which might have been hammered into a stone:
http://www.mythicalireland.com/ancientsites/knowth/atlantis-map-in-knowth.phphttp://www.mythicalireland.com/ancientsites/knowth/atlantis-map-in-knowth.php

Quote:
Is Plato's Atlantis map in Knowth, asks Swedish academic

A four-feet granite stone basin in the Eastern passage of Knowth may be engraved with a map of the city of Atlantis, as Plato described it. The three concentric circles match the three concentric lakes of Atlantis. A copy of the stone is displayed in the Boyne Valley visitor centre (see photo).

The similarity was noted by Dr. Ulf Erlingsson, who visited Knowth last month. His book Atlantis from a Geographer’s Perspective: Mapping the Fairy Land will be released in Europe September 30 th (16.95). Plato described an inner island 5 stadia in diameter, surrounded by a circular lake 1 stade wide.
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H_JamesOffline
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PostPosted: 26-07-2005 14:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see what the fuss about Atlantis is at all: it's clearly an allegory, of the sort Plato uses all the time. Nobody goes on expeditions to find chariots of the soul, or whatever.
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MaxMolyneuxOffline
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PostPosted: 28-07-2005 22:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

James H wrote:
I don't see what the fuss about Atlantis is at all: it's clearly an allegory, of the sort Plato uses all the time. Nobody goes on expeditions to find chariots of the soul, or whatever.


How do you know it's an allegory of Plato? Was a Library in Eygpt that got destroyed with the scrolls in it maybe there was some hostroy about it in there.

There are sunken islands though.
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H_JamesOffline
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PostPosted: 28-07-2005 22:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know that it is, but then again there's no evidence that it isn't. So it seems a bit pointless to go on about.
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Jack_RamirezOffline
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PostPosted: 09-08-2005 15:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is not one shred of evidence that atlantis ever existed - as some posters have said above

maybe in 9000 years time people will be looking for evidence of narnia and it's talking animals, and ruritainia and it's political intrigues Rolling Eyes
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