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Atlantis Thread
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WondrWmnOffline
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PostPosted: 25-11-2005 17:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is highly improbable that evidence of an advanced civilization could survive for us to find it if we didn't dig deep enough because acataclysms have been commonplace on earth. The sea levels rise...the archaeological record is full of evidence of such catastrophies and recently a digsite of a workshop estimated to over 100,000 thousand years old was excavated. I believe that humankind was at the height of it's game over and over, over the course of millions, maybe billions of years, and everytime something big happened and we had to start from scratch. We have not explored the oceans thoroughly and everyday something new crops up to turn old theories upside down.
To say there were no advanced civilizations is to say that we are not capable of anything beyond sitting on the commuter rail listening to our ipods. No offense to anyone but it really annoys me when people try to dumb down humankind, saying we were/are incapable of this or that. I think we are more than capable and we were more than capable then and if we rid ourselves of the idiocy behind the theory that we are nothing more than hairless, upright apes then it'll be easier to see that we came from a vast, great empire of humans, with vast knowledge and potential and just like the tower of babel, everytime we got too smart, we got knocked down to size.
There is not only ONE sunken island out there...there are thousands. Atlantis is not the end all be all...Atlantis was just one of many because across the world, I guarantee you people were thriving, and trading and making their way and they were no different that we are today.
All we need is open-minded individuals exploring the seas, and making sure to it that whatever is found is giving a thorough investigation because not even the bimini road has gotten the proper investigation. And that's a shame.

WW-rambling as usual...but with passion.
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OldTimeRadioOffline
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PostPosted: 26-11-2005 01:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="_TMS_"] "....barring a miraculous 'Rosetta stone' type civilisation emerging all we're really doing is making informed guesses".[/quote]

That's certainly true at present, but remember that the submarine archaeological discoveries in question - off Cuba, in the Mediterranean, off India, in the North Sea, in the Northern Pacific, among still others, have all been located within just the past five years.

So this is the barest beginnings of the search rather than the end.
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OldTimeRadioOffline
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PostPosted: 26-11-2005 01:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="WondrWmn"] "Atlantis was just one of many...."

Exactly. That's why I normally speak of an "Atlantean Age" instead. But even that's something of a misnomer when we're speaking of putative prehistoric ruins off Okinawa or India.

P. S. Are you the same Wonder Woman who was previously active on the now-defunct Para-Normal.Com?
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many_angled_oneOffline
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PostPosted: 07-12-2005 12:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4505516.stm

"Scientists have identified a major climate crisis that struck Africa about 70,000 years ago and which may have changed the course of human history.
"
Possibly the poke that made ancient humans utilise their larger brains more often in the struggle to survive and also the push that drove them to spread across the world.
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_TMS_Offline
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PostPosted: 07-12-2005 13:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bear with me on this article. I read it a couple of weeks ago, and at the time thought there was something of interest to receommend it:

Why do men find big lips and little noses so sexy? I'll paint you a picture
SCIENCE NOTEBOOK BY TERENCE KEALEY

“SINCE THE DAYS of cave painting, art has only degenerated,” Miró said. Miró believed that by the Stone Age art had already evolved as a fully formed human instinct, since when it has not progressed. Different styles have emerged over the millennia, of course, and new tricks such as perspective learnt, but human beings paint instinctively because the deep structure of art is innate (as innate, indeed, as the deep structure of language that Noam Chomsky described). Darwin linked art to nakedness. On his travels in the tropics Darwin met many Stone Age tribes, and he noted that they all painted, tattooed, pierced, clothed and decorated themselves. Closer to home, the Picts of Scotland were so named because their bodies were pictures. Because of the ubiquity of body art, Darwin proposed that we lost our hair to paint our bodies, and that only later had we transferred that skill to decorating cave walls.

Alfred Wallace, the co-discoverer of natural selection, did not concur. He agreed with Darwin that human nakedness has no survival value — a bare skin is vulnerable to cold and sun — but precisely because our nakedness is absurd, he argued that it proved the existence of God. Darwin was disappointed, writing in a catty footnote in Descent of Man that: “Mr Wallace believes ‘that some intelligent power has guided or determined the development of man’ and he considers the hairless condition of the skin as coming under this head.”

The scientific evidence supports Darwin. Most mammals possess only one species of louse, but we have three (scalp, pubic and body lice). Biologists have long reasoned that they evolved from a common ancestor when we lost our body hair and evolved three unique patches of hair. And the recent DNA dating work of Mark Stoneking and his colleagues at the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig shows that our three lice separated from each other about 70,000 years ago, which dates our body nakedness to then.
And the earliest known art, the stone ochre carvings and sea-shell necklaces from the Blombos Cave in South Africa, recently discovered by Christopher Henshilwood of the State University of New York, are also dated to 70,000 years ago, thus supporting Darwin’s hypothesis that art and nakedness co-evolved.

Art is not unique to human beings. From the peacock’s tail to the flowers in the fields, flora and fauna have for aeons used art to attract animals, generally for sex. The male bower birds of Australia even decorate their bowers with bunches of flowers to attract females, and Congo, a chimpanzee who lived in London Zoo in the 1950s, painted more than 200 works; Miró collected his paintings, one of which sold for £14,400 earlier this year. But about 70,000 years ago the artistic instinct seems suddenly to have exploded in humans, and we lost our bodily hair to paint and decorate ourselves in uniquely creative ways. Why? For sex of course; but for a specially human type of sex — intelligent sex.

We find intelligence sexy because it translates into wealth and power. Repeated surveys have shown that the more intelligent a person is, the better is that person’s health, wealth and social standing. And because intelligence is linked to wit and creativity, the person who decorates their body in the most creative, charming or amusing way is signalling their intelligence and thus their attractiveness.

This month Miriam Law Smith, of St Andrews University, showed that girls awash with oestrogen are sexy. The higher the levels of a girl’s oestrogen, the larger are her eyes, the fuller her lips and the smaller her nose. Men like that sort of thing, and because oestrogen also promotes fertility it is called an “honest” biological signal: it attracts men to women who are genuinely fertile. But Miriam Law Smith also found that women with low oestrogen who used make-up shrewdly could fool men into finding them as attractive as their more fertile sisters. Art and IQ, in short, are mightier than the hormone.

Art, artifice, artisan . . . it was the Romantic Movement that rescued art from the mundane, because for millennia we humans treated artists as commonplace or even deceiving. But the Romantics were right; we all possess to differing degrees an artistic instinct, but it is also a killer instinct — a lady-killer instinct.

Original article

70,000 year old body art? Separate development of human louse? That cave system in SA that showed signs of cultural relics -about 70,000 years old? Certainly some sort of Fortean hypothesis could start to be inferred. My money's still on the Toba eruption kick-starting this whole developmental imperative...

Lastly, the Pict people's name were coined by a Roman - from Picti - meaning to paint or decorate so only a B+ for the latin...
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Mr_Eamcat2Offline
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PostPosted: 08-12-2005 11:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm......Atlantis, Antartica, Piri Reis, Crustal Displacement.

That's Mr Eamcat's view of Atlantean history.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 16-02-2006 14:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm...some dodgy assumptions in that article, about art at least. The writer doesn't seem to know the difference between 'art' and plumage, or even art and decoration. Particularly ignorant is the assertion that '...it was the Romantic Movement that rescued art from the mundane, because for millennia we humans treated artists as commonplace or even deceiving.' Er...right, presumably he's never heard of the Renaissance, Vasari or Michelangelo? And is it me, or is it not the case that Miro's chimp painted pictures because a human being stuck a brush in his hand and a canvas in front of it?

Nitpicking, perhaps, but it's hard to tell what the writer is actually talking about here, which makes me doubt whether he knows what he's talking about. In any case, hadn't Homo Ergaster/Erectus developed a hairless body as a result of the need to keep cool (or am I placing way too much faith in Walking with Caveman and that guy with the moustache)?

Oh - and re the Picts - typically for this area of history there is considerable controversy over the Latinate 'Picti' derivation for the unruly northerners. Some scholars point to this being a very secondhand account and a species of early Roman 'orientalism', used to play up the savage and outlandish aspects of the barbarians. - Caesar after all, had called the painted BRITONS (not Picts) Britanni, specifically linking this name to the practice of early body art. The Scottish annals are not much help (they called the Picts 'Cruithne' - see above Very Happy ) . The theory now is that the name was derived from a native source, a claim strengthened by the existence of a continental Celtic tribe who called themselves The Pictones (especially significant in that there was no reported traiditon of body tatooing in continental Europe...)

Well, anyway, that's the academic fashion THIS season... It's not as if academic hypotheses are tatooed on or anything...
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TinFingerOffline
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PostPosted: 15-03-2006 23:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres my thoughts on atlantis(for what they are worth)

imho atlantis was a planet,its now an asteriod belt iirc between mars and juptier(thers enough material for a planet)
for me the atlaneans found there planet was doomed
(war beteen mars and atlantis?colisoin with so called 13th planet)
and decided to try to colonise earth,possibly it was them that wipes out the dinosours in advance?
it would seem in very ancient storys the moon wasnt in our skys so its possible that the moon was originally in orbit around atlantis but they used it as a transport device,this is why its now in its unusual orbit arount us.

also if i was being a bit paranoid the moon would make a perfect weapons platform as it always points outward,srtange aint it.

altough this is just my daydreaming while bored at work it would possibly make a cracking film and fits the facts as well as ive read

please find holes......
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rynner
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PostPosted: 15-03-2006 23:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

TinFinger wrote:
imho atlantis was a planet,its now an asteriod belt iirc between mars and juptier(thers enough material for a planet)

Not so. Total mass of the asteroids is well below that of a planet.

Quote:
it would seem in very ancient storys the moon wasnt in our skys so its possible that the moon was originally in orbit around atlantis but they used it as a transport device,this is why its now in its unusual orbit arount us.

also if i was being a bit paranoid the moon would make a perfect weapons platform as it always points outward,srtange aint it.

Many ancient stories may not mention the sun either - doesn't mean it wasn't there.

And the Moon always faces towards (or away from) Earth for well understood reasons to do with gravitational Tidal Capture.

Quote:
altough this is just my daydreaming while bored at work it would possibly make a cracking film and fits the facts as well as ive read

please find holes......


Have done so! Very Happy
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TinFingerOffline
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PostPosted: 16-03-2006 22:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so. Total mass of the asteroids is well below that of a planet.

ok so alot of the mass was ejected during the catastrophic event probably ending up in jupiter/saturn/mars,would have thought an event that breaks up a planet would be pritty energetic
not withstanding its only a small leap of faith to beleve its possible due to the fact that there exsists a spot in orbit around our sun thats not occupied buy a planet but asteroids

And the Moon always faces towards (or away from) Earth for well understood reasons to do with gravitational Tidal Capture.

yes but its odd its the only moon in our solar system that dose this and also the only moon thats size aperars to be exactly the same size as the sun as seen from the planet.

Many ancient stories may not mention the sun either - doesn't mean it wasn't there.

yes but iirc there are stories that state they are from a time that is even before there was a moon in the sky
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rynner
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PostPosted: 16-03-2006 22:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

TinFinger wrote:
And the Moon always faces towards (or away from) Earth for well understood reasons to do with gravitational Tidal Capture.

yes but its odd its the only moon in our solar system that dose this..

Wrong again. Almost all moons in the solar system face their primaries. (In fact, I'd have to do some research to find some that don't!)

Quote:
..and also the only moon thats size aperars to be exactly the same size as the sun as seen from the planet.

This is actually a coincidence in time rather than anything else.
Because of the afore-mentioned tidal interactions (sorry to keep harping on about that!) the moon is slowly receding from the Earth. Once, it appeared bigger than the sun, and in the future it will appear smaller.
(These changes happen over thousands of years, so don't expect total eclipses to disappear in this generation!)
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TinFingerOffline
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PostPosted: 16-03-2006 22:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so most moons face their primaries(learn something every day)
but its still the same size as the sun and has been for a very long time
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rynner
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PostPosted: 16-03-2006 23:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

TinFinger wrote:
ok so most moons face their primaries(learn something every day)
but its still the same size as the sun and has been for a very long time

A long time in human history, yes.

But a short time in geological history, and even shorter in astronomical terms!

One thing science should teach us is a sense of perspective.
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TinFingerOffline
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PostPosted: 16-03-2006 23:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes but its only human history,and possible a short while before thats relevant
this is the atlantis thread and i still stand buy the premmis that it could have been on a planet thats now nothing more than an asteriod feild

iirc it was an island beyond the pillars of hercules(spelling)
imho a planet could be described as an island,yes its a simplistic description but this is an ancient story that could have possibly been passed down the ages before it was passed to Plato

A Phaethon myth

“Ah Solon, Solon, you Greeks are ever children... There have been, and there will continue to be, numerous disasters that have destroyed human life in many kinds of ways. The most serious of these involve fire and water, while the lesser ones have numerous other causes. And so also among your people the tale is told that Phaethon, child of the Sun, once harnessed his father’s chariot, but was unable to drive it along his father’s course. He ended up burning everything on the Earth’s surface and was destroyed himself when a lightning bolt struck him. This tale is told as a myth, but the truth behind it is that there is a deviation in the heavenly bodies that travel around the Earth, which causes huge fires that destroy what is on the Earth across vast stretches of time... after the usual number of years, there comes the heavenly flood.”

large planetery disturbances????
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smokinggun1Offline
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PostPosted: 26-04-2006 10:53    Post subject: atlantis Reply with quote

Perhaps Atlantis was only one nation of an advanced anti diluvian civilisation. Plato, who recieved the information third hand (Solon, a Greek king was told of atlantis by the priests of sais), may have been mistaken about the type of island that it actually was. chances are, that it could have been man made.
Dubai are currently building several man made islands off its coast. one of these is called the world and can be seen from space.
Credo Mutwa writes about such a place in Indaba my children:
"......With all his metal and subhuman slaves
They built many vast and oblong rafts.
Each was a hundred miles long-with a breadth about half
And on these rafts he had them build new cities of solid gold"

And in these very early days of technology (wright bros - 1903) we are already building ships the size of cities.

And as for any artifacts remaining from that anti diluvian epoch, I think that the establishment may already have whisked most of them away!

Anyway, I believe that most of everything was destroyed in a catastrophic event possibly around 3650 bc. many myths and religious texts illustrate such an event, pertaining to an earth nemesis aka:
nibiru;planet x;taurid progenitor;god;assyrian chaos monster;the bull of heaven, amongst others.

This, from www.goldenageproject.org.uk :
"The egyptian priest Sonchis at sais giving knowledge of the past to the Greek leader Solon in 594 bc talks of past catastrophes as follows:

A deviation of the bodies that revolve in heaven around the earth and a destruction, occurring at long intervals of things on earth by a great conflagration and once more after the usual period of years, the torrents from heaven swept down like a pestilence, leaving only the rude and unlettered among you."

The first things to go would be power and communications-without which even the most technologically advanced civilisations, including Atlantis(eden) would cease to function.

And afterwards only the primitive would remain. Unless 'blue peter' increased the size of their time capsule!
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