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Atlantis Thread
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SameOldVardoger
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PostPosted: 12-05-2006 01:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone searched for Atlantis in the Black Sea yet?
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ProfessorFOffline
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PostPosted: 12-05-2006 08:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the Black Sea has been targeted before, with varying degrees of success. Or about as much success as anyone else can claim I suppose.

Quote:
Black Sea

German researchers Siegfried and Christian Schoppe locate Atlantis in the Black Sea: Before 5500 BC there was a great plain in the northwest at a former freshwater-lake. 5510 BC the barrier at today's Bosporus broke due to the rising sea level of the world-ocean. The Pillars of Hercules are identical with the Strait of Bosporus. Oreichalcos means the obsidian stone that used to be a cash-equivalent at that time and was replaced by the spondylus shell around 5500 BC. The geocatastrophic event led to the neolithic diaspora in Europe, also beginning 5500 BC.

In 2000AD Robert Ballard in a small submarine found remains of human habitation around 300 feet underwater in the Black Sea off the north coast of Turkey. The area flooded around 5000BC. This flood may have inspired the Biblical story of Noah's Ark; but the area need not be Atlantis.


source

Numerous websites are all suggesting the flooding of the area was responsible for the Noah's Ark tale and possibly tying in this flood 'memory' as being the story of Atlantis.
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fnordishOffline
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PostPosted: 28-05-2006 03:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, atlantis theories are full of the kind of wild speculation i love, so i have to throw in my 2 bits here. i agree with the idea that atlantis wasnt so much a single society, as a worldwide collection of advanced societies. much like the earth is now. they would have been advanced to varying degrees, some rather more so than others, but by and large id say none of them was much more so than we are now, if at all. now, seeing how human societies tend to work themselves out once they start operating on a global stage, one was probably on top, either technologically, culturally, or just through sheer military force. my votes on the first. i think this apex culture ("atlantis" for lack of an actual name) would stick in people memories the most, becoming platos atlantis. anyway, i subscribe mostly to the antarctica/ crustal shift theory, with one significant modification. antarctica (what bit of it was arable at the time) was the continent of atlantis. the CITY of atlantis, this supposed technological, three ringed, marvel, containing the elite of civilization, i think was a space station. when the crustal shift happened, it got knocked out of the sky, into some ocean or other, hence the sinking. then the people, all similarly knocked into the stone age, could later only conceive of it as an island.

anyway, thats my bit of wild speculation. the space station bit is just a fun idea, but the rest of it i pretty much buy. i dont know how things happened on YOUR earth, but thats how it happened on mine.
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RubyaitOffline
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PostPosted: 20-04-2007 08:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok There's two Atlantis threads but I'll post in this one. The other is here:

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=695608#695608

The wave that destroyed Atlantis

Quote:
The legend of Atlantis, the country that disappeared under the sea, may be more than just a myth. Research on the Greek island of Crete suggests Europe's earliest civilisation was destroyed by a giant tsunami.

Until about 3,500 years ago, a spectacular ancient civilisation was flourishing in the Eastern Mediterranean.

The ancient Minoans were building palaces, paved streets and sewers, while most Europeans were still living in primitive huts.

But around 1500BC the people who spawned the myths of the Minotaur and the Labyrinth abruptly disappeared. Now the mystery of their cataclysmic end may finally have been solved.

A group of scientists have uncovered new evidence that the island of Crete was hit by a massive tsunami at the same time that Minoan culture disappeared.

"The geo-archaeological deposits contain a number of distinct tsunami signatures," says Dutch-born geologist Professor Hendrik Bruins of the Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in Israel.

"Minoan building material, pottery and cups along with food residue such as isolated animal bones were mixed up with rounded beach pebbles and, crucially, sea shells and microscopic marine fauna.

The latter can only have been scooped up from the sea-bed by one mechanism - a powerful tsunami, dumping all these materials together in a destructive swoop," says Professor Bruins.

The deposits are up to seven metres above sea level well above the normal reach of storm waves.

"An event of ferocious force hit the coast of Crete and this wasn't just a Mediterranean storm," says Professor Bruins.

Big wave

The Minoans were sailors and traders. Most of their towns were along the coast, making them especially vulnerable to the effects of a tsunami.

One of their largest settlements was at Palaikastro on the eastern edge of the island, one of the sites where Canadian archaeologist Sandy MacGillivray has been excavating for 25 years.

Here, he has found other tell-tale signs such as buildings where the walls facing the sea are missing but side walls which could have survived a giant wave are left intact.

"All of a sudden a lot of the deposits began making sense to us," says MacGillivary.

"Even though the town of Palaikastro is a port it stretched hundreds of metres into the hinterland and is, in places, at least 15 metres above sea level. This was a big wave."

But if this evidence is so clear why has it not been discovered before now?

Tsunami expert Costas Synolakis, from the University of Southern California, says that the study of ancient tsunamis is in its infancy and people have not, until now, really known what to look for.

Many scientists are still of the view that these waves only blasted material away and did not leave much behind in the way of deposits.

But observation of the Asian tsunami of 2004 changed all that.

"If you remember the video footage," says Costas, "some of it showed tonnes of debris being carried along by the wave and much of it was deposited inland."

Volcanic eruption

Costas Synolakis has come to the conclusion that the wave would have been as powerful as the one that devastated the coastlines of Thailand and Sri Lanka on Boxing day 2004 leading to the loss of over 250,000 lives.

After decades studying the Minoans, MacGillivray is struck by the scale of the destruction.

"The Minoans are so confident in their navy that they're living in unprotected cities all along the coastline. Now, you go to Bande Aceh [in Indonesia] and you find that the mortality rate is 80%. If we're looking at a similar mortality rate, that's the end of the Minoans."

But what caused the tsunami? The scientists have obtained radiocarbon dates for the deposits that show the tsunami could have hit the coast at exactly the same time as an eruption of the Santorini volcano, 70 km north of Crete, in the middle of the second millennium BC.

Recent scientific work has established that the Santorini eruption was up to 10 times more powerful than the eruption of Krakatoa in 1883. It caused massive climatic disruption and the blast was heard over 3000 miles away.

Costas Synolakis thinks that the collapse of Santorini's giant volcanic cone into the sea during the eruption was the mechanism that generated a wave large enough to destroy the Minoan coastal towns.

It is not clear if the tsunami could have reached inland to the Minoan capital at Knossos, but the fallout from the volcano would have carried other consequences - massive ash falls and crop failure. With their ports, trading fleet and navy destroyed, the Minoans would never have fully recovered.

The myth of Atlantis, the city state that was lost beneath the sea, was first mentioned by Plato over 2000 years ago.

It has had a hold on the popular imagination for centuries.

Perhaps we there is an explanation of its origin - a folk memory of a real ancient civilisation swallowed by the sea.

Timewatch: The wave that destroyed Atlantis is on BBC Two at 2100BST on Friday 20 April, 2007.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6568053.stm

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rynner
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PostPosted: 20-04-2007 16:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But what caused the tsunami? The scientists have obtained radiocarbon dates for the deposits that show the tsunami could have hit the coast at exactly the same time as an eruption of the Santorini volcano, 70 km north of Crete, in the middle of the second millennium BC.

Ths is hardly a new theory. I read a book about 40 years ago that argued this hypothesis. (OK, maybe we know a little more now about tsunamis.)

And I think this was the book:
Quote:
The End of Atlantis - New light on an Old Legend
J. V. Luce
Hardcover (1969)
Thames and Hudson

J.V. Luce has for many years made a close study of the Classical sources relating to the Atlantis legend- in particular of Plato, the originator of the story.
In this book he suggests that the core of the legend is a historic fact: the volcanic desaster on Santorini that in turn caused the destruction of Crete by floods as first proposed by Marinatos in 1950. His work is critical and tries to concentrate on archaeological and geological facts and on the available sources. The book is furthermore valuable because of its many photographs and illustrations as well as an detailed appendix.

http://www.decadevolcano.net/santorini/santorini_books.htm#theendofatlantis
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rynner
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PostPosted: 20-04-2007 21:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just watched Timewatch.

It amused me how several times they pointed out that various people involved in the film had studied this subject for 20 or 25 years - although, as I pointed out above, the basic idea has been around much longer:
Quote:
..the volcanic desaster on Santorini that in turn caused the destruction of Crete by floods as first proposed by Marinatos in 1950.


It would have been good to honour the earliest proponents of this idea, although of course it's always good to get extra corroborative evidence.
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thealien2000ukOffline
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PostPosted: 29-04-2007 00:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read about a lot of places that could be atlantis here is just a few of them

Bimini (edga cayce 1940)
South of Cadiz in Spain (recent see FT)
The Azores (lewis spence 1924)
Thera / Santorini (S Marinatos 1950)
Crete (K T Frost 1909)
The Outer Hebrides (Erik Von Daniken 1974)
Cornwall (Erik Von Daniken 1974)
Scilly Isles
Bermuda
Puerto Rico
Corsica
Sardinia
Sicily
Iceland (Erik Von Daniken 1973)
England (Comyns Beaumont 1949)
Ireland
Canari Islands
Madeira
Morocco (F.Berlioux 1874)
Antillia
N. America (Francis Bacon c.1600)
Mexico (Louis de Launay 1938)
Brazil (P H Fawcett 1925)
Greenland (F de la motte la Vayer c.1700)
Spitzbergen (J S Bailly c.1800)
Sweden (Olaf Rudbeck 1675)
Heligoland (J Spanuth 1953)
Tartessos (A Schulten 1922)
Malta (G G Vasse 1900)
Sahara (D A Godron 1868)
Nigeria (F Elgee 1908)
S. Africa (G K Kirchmaier 1685)
Palestine (Serranus 1570)
Iraq (G F Oviedo y Valdez 1525)
Iran (P A Latreille 1819)
Ceylon
Mongolia (J S Bailly c.1800)
Egypt (Plutarch ???)
Mid Atlantic (Ignatius Donnelly)

Just to name a few and there are many more.

I've seen maps that were upside down and even where North was pointing right (but never left)

Plato describes Atlantis as west of the Pillars of Hercules but there was at least 6 Pillars of Hercules in the ancient world.

Gibralta
Gallipoli
Istanbul

I can't find the others
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rynner
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PostPosted: 29-04-2007 06:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another candidate would be 'Doggerland', the area of land between Britain and the Netherlands, which flooded after the last ice age.

It's been in the news and on TV recently - I posted about it in the Flooded Kingdoms thread, here:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=708883#708883

(But surprisingly, in all that discussion, no-one mentioned Atlantis...! Cool )
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HansluneOffline
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PostPosted: 29-04-2007 09:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no mention of Atlantis for the usual reasons and also because they have only recovered neolithic materials.
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eburacumOffline
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PostPosted: 14-05-2007 04:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to Santorini on holiday at the end of this month; if I find anything out 'll report back.
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Old_PretenderOffline
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PostPosted: 17-05-2007 16:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet...but here goes:

When Britain and mainland Europe were connected by a land bridge, creatures and people were able to wander back and forth across it.

If you were based in, let's say, Northern Germany, and you knew that your cousins had migrated across to the mild climate of Britain and helped create a civilisation there (advanced or not) what would you see when the land bridge was submerged?

Considering that Britain cannot be viewed from mainland europe (except in isolated spots in France possibly), one might conclude that the entire Island had been submerged.

Picture it.

At first the water would submerge only a part of the land bridge. If this process was halted for a few generations and both the Northern European and British communities could easily view each other, the resulting 'inhabited island' view from mainland Europe would be recognisable to anyone who has ever looked at an island from their own coast.

If after a few generations the water flooded so much more of that land bridge, the view of Britain would 'recede' to such a degree that the viewer may conclude that the whole island had been submerged.

Now you see it. Now you don't. Conclusions: a sunken island.

Atlantis. Razz

"Beyond the pillars of Hercules" could be a reference to ANY body outside the med. Including Britain. How would one sail to Britain from northern Africa or Greece? By traversing the 'tight as a nun's chuff' straits of Gibraltar.

I apologise if this has been covered. I will now read the thread properly.
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DeeDeeTeeOffline
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PostPosted: 21-05-2007 15:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old_Pretender: I like the cut of your jib Very Happy . It kinda makes sense...

However you have to explain how this piece of folk history from the North-West frontier of the World finds its way back to become a secret history held by the Egyptians only! Surely it would be transmitted from North to South and be a commonly held myth pre-Plato in the North?
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 28-06-2007 14:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Fabled island Atlantis still exists, says researcher
UPI

June 28, 2007


PISA, Italy -- An Italian researcher said that the fabled island of Atlantis did not sink but is sitting just off the coast of Sierra Leone in West Africa.

Marcello Cosci, former head of Siena University's archaeological photo-interpretation department told Italy's ANSA news agency that he has been poring over satellite imagery for three years and said that he has matched physical features written about Atlantis with the island of Sherbro.

Cosci released a book Wednesday in Italy detailing how descriptions of Atlantis, such as three ditches around a citadel and a canal, match modern pictures of Sherbro.

While the existence of Atlantis has never been confirmed, it was first mentioned in the writings of the Greek philosopher Plato around 427 to 347 BC. Plato said that the island and its advanced civilization were destroyed by a natural disaster, now akin to a tsunami.

Nowadays, Sherbro's main industries are fishing and rice farming, the report said.

http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20070628-072543-6977r

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azuredoorOffline
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PostPosted: 30-07-2008 13:27    Post subject: A new Atlantis candidate found off North coast Ireland? Reply with quote

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7532771.stm

Quote:
Prehistoric land under the sea


Huge cliffs and vast basins were revealed in the survey
By Mike McKimm
Science Correspondent, BBC Northern Ireland




It's a landscape no human has even seen. And those who live right beside it had no idea it even existed.

Deep below the sea, off the north coast of Northern Ireland, a dramatic geological mystery has been discovered.

Huge cliffs, vast basins and plateaus, a lake and even rivers have been found. But so far no-one is certain what caused them to end up like this deep under the sea.

The discovery was made when the seabed was being surveyed to update old Admiralty charts, drawn up in the mid-1800s.

Funded by the European Union and backed by the UK's Maritime and Coastguard Agency, a survey vessel has been scanning the seabed along most of the north coast of Ireland, including the seabed north of Rathlin Island.
Marine biologists have been surveying the sea bed


Most of the bottom was largely flat and unremarkable, but as the survey headed east it suddenly came across an unexpected landscape.

For the first time marine biologists could understand what was down there and the scale of it all.

"I'm always very envious of my terrestrial biologist colleagues", said Joe Breen, Head of Aquatic Science with Northern Ireland's new Environment Agency, who has dived the area for years.

"They can go out on land and see where their habitats are. Underwater we've never had that luxury.

"On a dive you can only see about 15 metres so it's like operating in fog. Now, with this survey, we can report on the true extent of the features.

"For the European Habitat Directive, we have to report the extent of our reefs and sandbanks. This will help with the whole concept of marine spatial planning.

"So, if someone wants to put in renewable energy or extract aggregate, we now have a blueprint and can see how they're going to interact and if it's sustainable."

The survey is to update old Admiralty charts of the area


One of the most striking details is a large lake or crater on what was once the top of huge cliffs towering above the plateau below.

The streams and rivers that fed it are still clearly defined.

And that raises one of the mysteries. Why did coastal erosion not obliterate all that detail as the sea slow rose over the land?

Could it mean that some cataclysmic event took place that allowed the sea to overwhelm the land before erosion could begin?

But already the marine scientists are excited about what they've found.

"We can now get a true idea of the true extent of the rare and endangered species and habitats", said Mr Breen.

"We can now see that we have got more of certain features which we weren't aware of - like sandbanks and reefs. The sandbank features in particular are stunning."

The survey is part of a 2m euro cross-border collaboration with the Marine Institute of Ireland. The area covered is a three nautical mile strip ranging from Tory Island off Donegal to Torr Head near Ballycastle.


http://www.vnrs.co.uk/mca/video/rathlin.wmv

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7466369.stm
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Waylander28Offline
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PostPosted: 30-07-2008 19:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost fits my theory, but not north, I believe Atlantis was off the west of Ireland. Known to the ancient Irish as the land called Tir Na Nog, (land of the young or beautiful).
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