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Posted: 05-08-2004 03:59 Post subject: The Nazis and the Occult

There isn't a general thread on this so here it goes.

Some older and possibly relevant threads (or not):

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5588

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5234

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8749

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13044

Sooooooooo my question:

Was Himmler a zombie?

Well OK its closer to why would anyone think he was? The Unexplained has a section on Nazis and the occult (MoMS&T - vol 17) and this bit attracted my attention:

Posted: 05-08-2004 09:30 Post subject:

I may have mentioned this elsewhere, but the book 'Arktos: Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism and Nazi Survival' by Joscelyn Godwin is an very interesting book about Nazi theories WRT the occult, polar 'mythology', etc..

Very expensive tho'! Not sure why...

Posted: 05-08-2004 11:52 Post subject:

The late Geraid Suster wrote a book on the topic from a Thelemic perspective entitled 'Hitler & the Age of Horus'.

I believe it may be out of print, but a scouring of disreputable bookshops around Charing Cross may come up trumps... Smile

Posted: 05-08-2004 12:14 Post subject:

Hi

the Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke is the best that i'm aware of.

the paperback edition 2004 published by Tauis Parke has an appendix "The modern mythology of nazi occultism". it gives a run down of other writings in this area.

suggest you give ravenscroft a miss unless you're studying the development of the myths surrounding this subject.

richard @

Posted: 05-08-2004 13:16 Post subject:

Thanks for the tips.

Posted: 05-08-2004 14:14 Post subject:

I read something about Aleister Crowley supposedly being brought in by the British Army to help counteract the Magic being used by certain Nazi's.

I believe it's in "The Secrets of Aleister Crowley" - Author being one Amado Crowley, who claims to be the formers illegitimate son.
Quite a good read - all in all - Especially the story about Crowley and the British Army.

Having said that though.. i just found this which doesn't speak too highly of said book - lol

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7069/amado.html

Posted: 05-08-2004 14:20 Post subject:

Posted: 05-08-2004 15:44 Post subject:

Hopefully this won't derail the thread....

But I was wondering how much of this "NAZI occultisim" mythology is the product of 60's men's magazines? From what I've seen, there seems to been a lot of "Sex slaves of the SS" type stuff out there for a while. Could a lot of these unsubstatiated vaporings have originated from such places?

Ex: http://www.lileks.com/institute/stagworld/fmo0963/1.html

Posted: 05-08-2004 22:53 Post subject:

Well, there is a lot of evidence linking the core Nazi leadership to the Volkischer movements, and Himmler's design of Wewelsburg Castle is testament in stone to his Pseudo-Templar aspirations.

On the other hand, other key figures like Heidrich and Goebells seem to have been completely uninterested in any of that.

I guess the it comes down to the Nazi elite being an unlikely blend of technocrats, cynics and wide-eyed romantics, that somehow managed to function.

Posted: 06-08-2004 00:06 Post subject:

There also ties bewteen rather dodgy Nazi archaeologists and the New Age movement.

Posted: 26-08-2004 12:14 Post subject:

Rudolf Hess may even have been an emissary of the Thule cult, attempting to retrieve that which they believed was contained in the vaults of Rosslyn chapel - but missing it by miles and instead landing in a field outside East Kilbride.

Posted: 08-10-2004 20:10 Post subject:

I was told Hitler was used as a spirit medium as a child, wiether true or not I dont know, but reading how he came to power can well belive he had some sort of supernatural help to get where he got and the result of which :- the destruction of those that used to be Gods own people, the Jews.
Whatever, he certainly was trying to do what Jesus said he would do when he brings his kingdom, a Thousand year raine where Humans would be brought to perfection with no sickness or old age, his idea of perfect humans differed somewhat from Jesus, likewise his means of iradicating sickness and old age.
Does Fuerer not also mean Messiah?

I belive Hitler was just a puppet used by evil higher powers, a bit like most polititians really.

Posted: 08-10-2004 20:21 Post subject:

'Fuhrer' means 'leader' - 'messiah' means something else ('annointed by God') and thus the two concepts aren't at all similar. As for Hitler being some sort of Christian knight against the Jews, that's not really the case.

What are 'higher powers'? Why is it not possible grasp that Hitler did what he did simply because they were his own ideas? I think that blaming something/something else tries to hide from the concept of that an ordinary human being can do such things, given the oppurtunity. For some it goes towards bad, constructive things - for others useful, constructive things.

Posted: 08-10-2004 20:55 Post subject:

Hi Jerry, I was looking to see if I could find anything to back up my claim to Fuhrer can also mean Messiah when I found this http://www.raptureme.com/terry/james10.html
The first three paragraphs show the view I gave is not just limited to me, though I dont know what he then goes on about.

Yes, I agree with you regarding Hitlers hatred of the Jews, a lot of the Germans felt the Jews had a major role in Germany surrendering a war she was winning and harboured an early hatred in Hitlers mind, nonetheless, if you read how Hitler came to power, he wasnt just voted in, a lot of events seemed to go his way and if there is an occult, (the subject of this thread), then it would follow that there is a Satan, and he certainly hates anything God holds or held dear, so why wouldnt he use somebody that allready shared his views in order to destroy the Jews and to create his own evil version of his enemy Jesus Kingdom?

Posted: 09-10-2004 10:39 Post subject:

Hmm, that article makes a great deal out of one German word - a word which doesn't have as many connotations as it's author assumes it has. So it's not really a good argument IMHO.

Implying that Hitler rose to power was somehow down to something strange (i.e. 'occult' influences) is a bit naiive IMHO. If one takes into account the political state of Germany after WW1 and the during the inter-war years, it's quite clear how Hitler and the Nazis came to power.

Sure, there are 'occult' elements to some parts of Naziism - this doesn't make them real factors that have anything of substance at all. Various Nazis were interested in all sorts of odd stuff, and weren't beyond making up things to suit their ideology. This doesn't mean that any of it was anything more than misguided and misinformed ideas, based on other misguided an misinformed ideas.

Lastly, to bring in the whole religious angle is to make the very big assumption that (a) God (as described in the Bible) exists, and (b) Judaism/Christianity are the thus the only 'true' religions in the whole of human history. Somehow, their version of things is the right one - which is open to question. It also implies that anti-Jewish ideology has a basis in something concrete, which is also not the case. It arose due to alot of crass ignorance, like all forms of bigotry.