Forums

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages 
Zana the wild woman
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Cryptozoology - manbeasts and mystery apes
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tang-malow
PostPosted: 19-01-2002 16:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

that explains chris evans
Back to top
intaglioreallyOffline
Well what am I now?
Joined: 14 Oct 2001
Total posts: 1596
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 20-01-2002 00:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this Red-Heads = Neanderthal idea is a bit old and comes from the early inference that celts were the earliest inhabitants of UK and Eire. Isn't there a Sherlock Holmes story that mentions it in passing? The Erse legends certainly say that before men came to the inhabitants were the tuatha de Danaan who were tall and fair (of face) but that they had displaced the Fir Bolg who were short and dark.

A bit of synchronicity in this reply, about 5 mins ago I mentioned the Fir Bolg in a reply to Helen
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
FelixAntoniusOffline
Outsider.
Joined: 07 Aug 2001
Total posts: 1057
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 20-01-2002 20:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

intaglo, are you thinking of the short story: "The Grisly Folk" by (I think) Algernon Blackwood?
Back to top
View user's profile 
intaglioreallyOffline
Well what am I now?
Joined: 14 Oct 2001
Total posts: 1596
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 21-01-2002 03:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

could be, i an a very little brain of bare
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Anonymous
PostPosted: 21-01-2002 08:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres a welsh guy who writes into FT every so often thst reckons Gingerness, left handedness and socialism are traits associated with neanderthal genes. The Fir Bolg thing is usually taken to refer to the shorter, darker population group found in western Ireland, the "Black Irish", who had the run of the place till the celts turned up.
Back to top
tang-malow
PostPosted: 21-01-2002 09:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

werent the picts dark skinned also?? they had run of scotland till the irish turned up and threw them off cliffs for their secret of heather ale, which unfortunately died with the last pict Sad
Back to top
Anonymous
PostPosted: 21-01-2002 14:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was earlier talking on another thread, where someone mentioned that maybe the irish encountered neandertals when they came there. Interesting that people will blame both Australia and Ireland on neandertals. But I guess that would explain all the red hair the irish have Smile

I do however remember reading an article saying that the neandetals since living in northern europe probably were blonde and red-haired. Not dark haired and dark skinned like people usually imagine them.
Back to top
tang-malow
PostPosted: 21-01-2002 19:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

the ancient irish and scots could very well of been related to neanderthals. that could explain theyre physical differences and why the romans feared them so much, they even built hadrians wall to keep them out of england.
Back to top
Anonymous
PostPosted: 22-01-2002 09:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the ancient irish and scots could very well of been related to neanderthals. that could explain theyre physical differences and why the romans feared them so much, they even built hadrians wall to keep them out of england


Tang- What physical differences are these? The romans didnt fear the scots+irish in particular they just never quite got round to conquering them as there wasnt much wealth in Scotland to be had and the landscape didnt suit their economic system. Also the conquest of Britain was the highwater mark of the empire's expansionist phase. Hadrians wall was in part a defensive structure but its only about 8 feet tall, recent historians think of it more as a civilising influence on both sides of the border, a kind of "roman shopping mall"
Back to top
tang-malow
PostPosted: 22-01-2002 09:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

durriti wrote:



Tang- What physical differences are these? The romans didnt fear the scots+irish in particular they just never quite got round to conquering them as there wasnt much wealth in Scotland to be had and the landscape didnt suit their economic system. Also the conquest of Britain was the highwater mark of the empire's expansionist phase. Hadrians wall was in part a defensive structure but its only about 8 feet tall, recent historians think of it more as a civilising influence on both sides of the border, a kind of "roman shopping mall"


The picts where supposedly shorter than the current Scots and also had darker skin. (i hope the word scots doesnt offend you!)
I think you will also find that the Romans did infact fear the picts and there are many legends in which whole legions disappeared without a trace in Caledonia.
Hadrian’s Wall was also 6.5 meters tall.. Not 8 foot! it had a 9 meter long ditch dug in front of it and behind the first wall there was another wall built so roman warriors could patrol incase the northern barbarians attacked. There was also forts along the wall that held roman warriors who’s job was to kill anyone who attacked the wall.. there was supposidly over 100 sodiers posted at each fort and roman soldiers where also paid quite well so i doubt they where there to sell cosmetics in this mall of yours. I have been to Hadrian’s Wall many times and I don’t think it was a "roman shopping mall". pfft I suppose the Roman Colleseum was an ancient carpark??


Last edited by Guest on 22-01-2002 09:55; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Anonymous
PostPosted: 22-01-2002 10:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

.
Quote:
The picts where supposedly shorter than the current Scots and also had darker skin


supposed by who? Roman authors normally refer to them as "caledonii" and describe them as tall and ginga. Even if they had been small and dark there is no evidence at all for Neanderthal pigmentation, so it would prove nothing.

Quote:
I think you will also find that the Romans did infact fear the picts and there are many legends in which whole legions disappeared without a trace in Caledonia.


The romans made many successful expeditions not just beyond hadrians wall but beyond the Antonine wall as far north as Perthshire. Missing 9th (5th?) legion did return to York and later got anhilated in Germania, thats the only legend I know of.
I dont deny there were soldiers there but the main use of the wall was as a centre of "romanitas", the Antonine wall serving a more defensive purchase.
Back to top
tang-malow
PostPosted: 24-01-2002 02:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

durriti wrote:

.
supposed by who? Roman authors normally refer to them as "caledonii" and describe them as tall and ginga. Even if they had been small and dark there is no evidence at all for Neanderthal pigmentation, so it would prove nothing.

The romans made many successful expeditions not just beyond hadrians wall but beyond the Antonine wall as far north as Perthshire. Missing 9th (5th?) legion did return to York and later got anhilated in Germania, thats the only legend I know of.
I dont deny there were soldiers there but the main use of the wall was as a centre of "romanitas", the Antonine wall serving a more defensive purchase.


oh is that so? is this map wrong then??
look at this map
I was always under the impression that hadrians wall was built first to defend the romans against the picts and then after they where brave enuff to venture further forward they built the Antonine wall .. but then again what do i know?!? youve obviously looked into this subject alot more than i have, i bet you have watched Gladiator more than 3 times.

I think you will find the Romans referred to the picts as "picts" as the word pict was given to them by the Romans, the word pict is roman and means "the painted ones" as they had a habit of covering their bodies with tattoos (this is where the makers of brave heart got the idea of a blue faces William Wallace) The picts where known to the Irish as the Cruithne and I don’t know where you read that they where tall and "ginga" <--- is this a racist derogatory term for people with ginger hair, just like "abo" is a derogatory term for Australian Aborigines?? I resent that remark as many members of my family are of the carrot crunching persuasion!!!

Anyways ive always been told that the picts where small and dark skinned by local historians, having visited many pictish stone circles and rock carvings and i have also read this in books and even in storys my mother used to tell me as a bairn to make me goto sleep. She used to tell me the story of the heather ale and how the last 2 picts came to die, in the story they are described as smaller than a normal man with dark skin. Im sure your tall and "ginga" friends you are talking about are the Celts who where and still are Tall and very very "ginga"

The point i raised about how the picts MAY have neanderthal heritage may have no evidence but the fact that noone knows where the picts came from and the fact that they didnt resemble any other race in the surrounding area does make the mind wander and hey this is a fortean webpage... i think it is probably the best place to my ideas of where these guys came from, sorry if that annoys or offends you.

Quote:
by Kym ní Dhoireann

The Picts are a people of great speculation and controversy, with amazing outlandish claims made about them by Pagan and non-Pagan alike, Scot and non-Scot. It seems that many people think that there is so little known about the Picts that we can make up anything we want. This is not new for, while Margaret Murray (The God of the Witches), made the idea that the Faerie Folks were really small, dark-skinned remains of the Picts popular, she did not invent this. In the Historia Norvegiae a twelfth-century Icelander described them as "pygmies who 'did wonders in the mornings and the evenings but at mid-day lost their strength and hid in holes in the ground'" (Laing and Laing The Picts and the Scots pg 1)

http://cyberpict.net/sgathan/essays/picts.htm


pygmies? arent they tall and ginga??


Last edited by Guest on 24-01-2002 03:06; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Anonymous
PostPosted: 24-01-2002 12:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres nowt wrong with speculating, if you dont mind it when someone thinks the speculation is daft. You are right that there is no evidence that the Picts dont have neanderthal blood, as you could also say abut the short dark romans. The contemporary sources about the picts are sparce and contradictory. Its quite interesting that on that map the Romans were so scared of the picts they only invaded the farmland and left the picts with the views. No wonder they were short with the diet youd get off farming the highlands. Im not saying the romans didnt use the term Picts, but its used interchangeably with Caledonii. Im not being funny but i would be genuinely interested in any contemporary sources which describe the Picts as dark, I think I remeber Bede describing them that way (not sure). 12th century Icelandic chronicles dont fill me with confidence as they are describing people who lived 100s of miles away, 100s of years ago (the pictish kingdom united with the scots in the 800s and Viking incursions meant the Pictish language was replaced with Gaelic and Norse very quickly) .
Back to top
tang-malow
PostPosted: 24-01-2002 12:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

where did u read that they where tall and had ginger hair?
Back to top
Anonymous
PostPosted: 24-01-2002 13:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yerman the roman who toured Britain b4 the conquest, various roman stuff, sorry for vaguenes but at work. Look up soon
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Cryptozoology - manbeasts and mystery apes All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group