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rjmrjmrjm Professional Surrealist
Constipated-Philosopher Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 1465 Location: Behind your eyes... Gender: Unknown |
 Posted: 05-03-2007 12:35 Post subject: |
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| What about culture like Japan where religion is so ingrained into everyday life that it's impossible to discern what is a religious practice and what is simply cultural? What would you ban there? |
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| PeniG Proud children's writer Joined: 31 Dec 2003 Total posts: 2920 Location: San Antonio, Texas Age: 52 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 30-04-2008 14:13 Post subject: |
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I couldn't find a thread on attempted deicide, so figured this would have to do. My guess is this boy isn't going to be judged fit to stand trial.
http://www.woai.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=88256b22-22f6-4db9-85fe-04db33dea1ab
| Quote: | Teen accused in school plot wanted to kill Jesus
Last Update: 4/29 4:16 pm
Ryan Schallenberger appears in a Chesterfield, South Carolina courtroom after he was arrested for plotting to blow up his high school April 21, 2008. (CNN) FLORENCE, S.C. (AP) - Federal authorities say a South Carolina teen accused of plotting to blow up his high school told police that he wanted to die, go to heaven and kill Jesus.
A dark portrait of Ryan Schallenberger emerged Tuesday in a federal courtroom as prosecutors argued the teen needs a psychological evaluation.
An ATF agent says Schallenberger told a sheriff about his wish to die after his arrest. Prosecutors also played a 911 tape of the teen's mother calling police after he smashed his head into a wall. She says on the tape her son threatened to shoot police if they were called to his home.
Authorities say the teen bought materials to make several bombs and had written a journal detailing his plans to attack Chesterfield High School.
©2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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| rynner Location: Still above sea level Gender: Male |
| Posted: 14-06-2008 10:44 Post subject: |
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Priest in court for scratching car with key
By Auslan Cramb
Last Updated: 9:34PM BST 13/06/2008
A priest who was so irritated to find a car blocking the pavement in front of him that he took revenge by scraping a key along the side has been ordered to pay £200 in compensation to the driver.
Michael Voinus, 60, scratched the vehicle in a busy town centre and then told an onlooker who challenged him that it was something he did regularly.
He also shouted that "the police are all protestants" and claimed, after being hauled in front of magistrates, that he was prosecuted because he was wearing a dog collar, adding: "The church had to contend with this for the firsst 300 years of its existence." 
The Rev Voinus, who preaches at the Holy Catholic Church Western Rite, Middleport, Staffs, was convicted of criminal damage, given an 18-month conditional discharge and ordered to pay £200 in compensation.
The former teacher, who denied the charge, was also forced to apologise to the court after being threatened with a night in the cells for continually protesting his innocence.
The district judge at North Staffordshire Magistrates said he was giving him a conditional discharge because he wanted a punishment that hung over his head "like the sword of Damocles".
Heather Johnson, a witness who picked out Voinus at an identity parade, told the court: "I couldn't believe what I was seeing. He turned and looked at me and said, 'that will teach them to park on the pavement'."
The car was parked outside a garage, where it was due to be repaired, in the centre of Burslem, Stoke-on-Trent. A spate of car vandalism had been reported to police in the weeks before the incident in February.
Voinus said that most of his "small" congregation knew about the incident, and blamed it on a "growing anti-Christian attitude" in Stoke-on-Trent. 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2125153/Priest-in-court-for-scratching-car-with-key.html |
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| ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17933 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
| Posted: 03-03-2010 14:22 Post subject: |
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Cornish bible student jailed in road rage knife row
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cornwall/8545454.stm
A bible student who threatened a dustman with a knife during a road rage incident has been jailed for 15 months.
Simon Luke, 35, of Polsue Way, Tresillian, Cornwall, overtook a line of six vehicles when he was late for an appointment, Truro Crown Court heard.
When refuse collector Treve Stoddern confronted Luke at traffic lights, the bible student pulled out a knife and Mr Stoddern received cuts to his hands.
Luke was convicted of unlawful wounding and having a knife in a public place.
The court was told there had been "pushing and shoving" between the two men before Luke produced a 12in (30cm) bladed fishing knife from behind his back and brought it up to the binman's face.
'Awful error'
Mr Stoddern, 50, went to grab the knife with his hands and his fingers were cut as Luke pulled back the blade.
Judge Stephen Wildblood QC told Luke: "This was knife crime. There was no reason for you to take the knife with you out of your car."
Mr Stoddern said he intended to give Luke a piece of his mind because "he had driven so dangerously and could have killed someone", but Luke accused Mr Stoddern of being "super aggressive".
"The way he was acting I thought he was going to kill me," Luke told the court.
The incident happened on the A394 Helston to Falmouth road last June as computer engineer Luke raced to his next appointment.
Beeping horns
Defence lawyer Piers Norsworthy said Luke's behaviour was caused by frustration, but he was not a violent man.
"He made an awful error, a big mistake, the injury caused was by his reckless not deliberate actions," he said.
"He was frustrated behind a dustcart and the beeping horns and Mr Stoddern's behaviour in the cab."
Luke, who has no previous convictions, was described in court as a "sincere Christian man" and a "kind and compassionate man" by his bible college friends.
The judge, sitting in Exeter Crown Court, ordered Luke to pay his victim £500 compensation, even though he accepted there had been some provocation.
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| Kellydandodi Great Old One Joined: 22 May 2006 Total posts: 137 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 31-03-2010 17:52 Post subject: |
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| Some of these stories are just chilling - all the more chilling in that some resonate with me apropos some of the Christian (30s revivalist) "born agains" I encounter in my capacity as a regional school arts co-ordinator. |
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| OldTimeRadio Great Old One Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Total posts: 5539 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA Age: 72 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 31-03-2010 23:51 Post subject: "1930s Revivalist" |
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Pardon, but what is a "30s revivalist"? I'm a Christian but the phrase is unknown to me.
And of course all Christians are "born again," by definition. |
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| PeniG Proud children's writer Joined: 31 Dec 2003 Total posts: 2920 Location: San Antonio, Texas Age: 52 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 01-04-2010 02:49 Post subject: |
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Actually, to pick nits with you Mr. Radio, not all Christian fundamentalists claim to be born again. This is Calvanism we're talking about here. It's perfectly possible to accept the Gospel as literal truth and not feel that personal connection to God that is supposed to signal salvation. It's not enough to say you believe, or to believe you believe; God has to personally come into your heart and Save you. I believe the reasoning is that since Jesus alone saves, and since the number of places in Heaven is limited, a conscious decision on your part isn't sufficient. All that does is bring you to Jesus's attention: Hi, God, I'm trying to be ready for you.
After all, if you decide to believe something - you don't.
Many people do mean "Are you saved?" when they ask "Are you a Christian?" And many people do mean "I got saved" when they say "I became a Christian." But professing the religion without believing yourself to be born-again (yet) is possible. |
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| OldTimeRadio Great Old One Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Total posts: 5539 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA Age: 72 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 01-04-2010 09:51 Post subject: |
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Hi, Peni. So nice to be in contact with you again. We both seem to have been away from this list for a considerable spell.
What was strongly pushed in my Southern Baptist church was that a mere intellectual affirmation that the Christian gospel is true doesn't save anybody and thus doesn't make the affirmer a Christian.
And I have no reason to believe that my original Roman Catholic educators would have had the slightest disagreement with that statement.
I was not defining as "Christian" everybody who sets foot in a church door, not even on a regular and continuing basis.
P. S. My trouble with Christian religions is that I always seemed to be a Calvinist when the religion preached Aquinas and an Aquinist (what's the correct spelling there - my spell checker has refused everything I've tried!) when the religion insisted on Calvinism. |
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| ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17933 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
| Posted: 16-11-2012 19:49 Post subject: |
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| TheQuixote wrote: | | Quote: |
'Abusive' nun barred from flight
A woman claiming to be a Franciscan nun has twice been barred from boarding a flight from Shetland to Aberdeen.
Sister Ruth Augustus said that British Airways would not allow her to fly because she was carrying a two foot statue of the Virgin Mary.
But BA said the nun, 64, was grounded because she was abusive to staff.
Sister Augustus has been travelling around Shetland for five days. The isles are the latest stop in her world tour to spread the Christian faith.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/4589897.stm
Published: 2005/05/28 17:23:32 GMT
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Shes at it again.
| Quote: | Community order for hoax nun over Nick Clegg letters
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20354564
Ruth Augustus said: "I'm not a Muslim terrorist. I'm a Catholic nun."
A 72-year-old woman who sent envelopes containing white powder to parliamentary figures including Nick Clegg has been given a community order.
Ruth Augustus, who claims to be a Catholic nun, was found guilty of six hoaxes involving noxious substances in July.
She has been told she must serve a two-year community order and have mental health treatment.
The letters were intercepted at an east London mail screening centre last year.
The powder was found to be non-hazardous, the Old Bailey heard.
Augustus, of Leyton, east London, accepted that she sent envelopes with letters in them but claimed police put the white powder in.
Devil worship
Mark Kimsey, prosecuting, said three envelopes were intercepted at a mail screening centre on 17 June 2011.
One was addressed to Deputy Prime Minister Mr Clegg and on the envelope was written "devil worshipping", "freemason", "sex with 30 plus women".
The second was to Baroness Scotland and had a swastika on it and two crosses, and "stop this evil devil worshipping".
The third was to Baroness Kennedy and was marked with a swastika, and "stop these evil devil-worshipping freemasons".
On 1 October last year, three more envelopes were found, addressed to Mr Clegg, Lady Kennedy and MP Edward Leigh.
The envelopes carried similar endorsements and slogans and contained white powder which was found to be non-hazardous.
The court heard that Augustus suffers from a delusional disorder which can be treated within the community.
Nick Clegg was the intended recipient for one of Sister Ruth Augustus' letters.
Augustus was arrested on 7 December and told police: "I'm Sister Ruth, a 71-year-old disabled nun."
'Offensive letters'
She also said: "I look like a terrorist, don't I, working for a charity all over the world, with orphans?
"I'm not a Muslim terrorist, I'm a Catholic nun."
Asked why she had sent a letter to Mr Leigh, she said: "He's a Catholic and goes to Westminster Cathedral."
Of Mr Clegg, she said he "lied about all the tuition fees and everything else, keeping those Tory millionaires and rats in government".
She added: "He boasted about all the women he's had sex with. He's an atheist singing hymns in the Albert Hall."
Mr Justice Saunders said the people she addressed her letters to would not have known the powder was harmless.
He said it would have been "a terrifying experience for them" if the letters had not been intercepted.
The court also heard that two members of the public had previously received offensive letters from Augustus, who was subsequently given a restraining order.
After Augustus was told she could leave court she shouted: "It's run by devil-worshipping freemasons, Nazis who break the law at a huge expense already." |
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| JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Total posts: 5779 Location: Manchester, UK Gender: Male |
| Posted: 16-11-2012 21:28 Post subject: |
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Why do these solitary nutters claim to be Catholics? Safety in numbers? They ought to know that stopped working a long while back!  |
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| Zilch5 Vogon Poet
Great Old One Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Total posts: 1527 Location: Western Sydney, Australia Gender: Male |
| Posted: 26-11-2012 03:36 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | WHAT WOULD JESUS SHOOT?
Churches offering concealed-carry weapons training to attract members
In an effort to increase membership, a number of U.S. churches — including the Church of Christ congregation in this rural village 30 miles north of Columbus — are offering an unconventional public service: Concealed weapons training.
“Church has done a good job with coffee klatsches or whatever, but we haven’t really reached out to guys,” said Jeff Copley, a preacher at the church. “And guys in Morrow Country, they shoot and they hunt.”
Hundreds of students have enrolled in the 10-hour course, which meets the state requirements for earning a concealed weapons permit. The training includes two hours on a church member’s private shooting range.
“I grew up going to church, but hadn’t attended in a number of years,” said David Freeman, 52, a local engineering manager who attended a firearm safety class at the church. “Always considered myself a Christian. I came for the gun classes and have been coming back for two years.”
The Marengo church launched its program several years ago and was likely among the first in the country to offer concealed weapons training. But from Texas to North Carolina, a smattering of congregations have recently followed suit, as ministers seek to capitalize on local enthusiasm for gun culture and demand for carry permit classes to expand their flocks.
Central Baptist Church in Lexington, N.C., held its first concealed weapons classes in March, in what the Rev. Ryan Bennett described as just “another avenue to reach people.”
“We want to draw people in to our campus,” Bennett told a local newspaper at the time. “And we’re going to try anything that we can to do that.”
While conceding that he carries a 9mm pistol with him at all times, he said he doesn’t want his congregation to be labeled “gun-toting.”
“We promote responsibility. We don’t endorse violence,” he said. “It’s just another way to draw people in.”
In Texas, where it’s legal to carry guns into any church without a specific no-firearms policy, Heights Baptist in remote San Angelo began offering concealed carry classes in June. The class was a response to security concerns among congregants. |
http://www.thedaily.com/article/2012/11/11/news-concealed-carry-church/ |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 11-10-2013 16:24 Post subject: |
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As the USA lurches towards default, a timely piece on why the Republican party appear to be almost relishing the bringing about of a new World wide recession. They've got religion.
| Quote: | http://www.salon.com/2013/10/10/christian_delusions_are_driving_the_gop_insane/
Christian delusions are driving the GOP insane
Why aren't Republicans more frightened of a shutdown and a default? Part of the reason is magical thinking
Salon.com. By Amanda Marcotte. 10.10.2013
This article originally appeared on Alternet
Why aren’t Republicans more afraid? The entire premise of both the government shutdown and the threats to force the government into debt default is that Democrats care more about the consequences of these actions than the Republicans do. Republicans may go on TV and shed crocodile tears about national monuments being shut down, but the act isn’t really fooling the voters: The only way to understand these fights is to understand that the GOP is threatening to destroy the government and the world economy in order to get rid of Obamacare (as well as a panoply of other right wing demands). Just as terrorists use the fact that you care more about the lives of the hostages than they do to get leverage, Republican threats rely on believing they don’t care about the consequences, while Democrats do.
So why aren’t they more afraid? Businessweek, hardly a liberal news organization, said the price of default would be “a financial apocalypse” that would cause a worldwide economic depression. This is the sort of thing that affects everyone. Having a right wing ideology doesn’t magically protect your investments from crashing alongside the rest of the stock market.
The willingness of Republicans to take the debt ceiling and the federal budget hostage in order to try to extract concessions from Democrats is probably the most lasting gift that the Tea Party has granted the country. More reasonable Republican politicians fear being primaried by Tea Party candidates. A handful of wide-eyed fanatics in Congress have hijacked the party. The Tea Party base and the hard right politicians driving this entire thing seem oblivious to the consequences. It’s no wonder, since so many of them—particularly those in leadership—are fundamentalist Christians whose religions have distorted their worldview until they cannot actually see what they’re doing and what kind of damage it would cause.
The press often talks about the Tea Party like they’re secularist movement that is interested mainly in promoting “fiscal conservatism”, a vague notion that never actually seems to make good on the promise to save taxpayer money. The reality is much different: The Tea Party is actually driven primarily by fundamentalist Christians whose penchant for magical thinking and belief that they’re being guided by divine forces makes it tough for them to see the real world as it is.
It’s not just that the rogue’s gallery of congress people who are pushing the hardest for hostage-taking as a negotiation tactic also happens to be a bench full of Bible thumpers. Pew Research shows that people who align with the Tea Party are more likely to not only agree with the views of religious conservatives, but are likely to cite religious belief as their prime motivation for their political views. White evangelicals are the religious group most likely to approve of the Tea Party. Looking over the data, it becomes evident that the “Tea Party” is just a new name for the same old white fundamentalists who would rather burn this country to the ground than share it with everyone else, and this latest power play from the Republicans is, in essence, a move from that demographic to assert their “right” to control the country, even if their politicians aren’t in power.
It’s no surprise, under the circumstances, that a movement controlled by fundamentalist Christians would be oblivious to the very real dangers that their actions present. Fundamentalist religion is extremely good at convincing its followers to be more afraid of imaginary threats than real ones, and to engage in downright magical thinking about the possibility that their own choices could work out very badly. When you believe that forcing the government into default in an attempt to derail Obamacare is the Lord’s work, it’s very difficult for you to see that it could have very real, negative effects.
It’s hard for the Christian fundamentalists who run the Republican Party now to worry about the serious economic danger they’re putting the world in, because they are swept up in worrying that President Obama is an agent of the devil and that the world is on the verge of mayhem and apocalypse if they don’t “stop” him somehow, presumably be derailing the Affordable Care Act. Christian conservatives such as Ellis Washington are running around telling each other that the ACA will lead to “the systematic genocide of the weak, minorities, enfeebled, the elderly and political enemies of the God-state.” Twenty percent of Republicans believe Obama is the Antichrist.Washington Times columnist Jeffrey Kuhner argued that Obama is using his signature health care legislation to promote “the destruction of the family, Christian culture”, and demanded that Christians “need to engage in peaceful civil disobedience against President Obama’s signature health care law”.
The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops joined in, demanding that the Republicans shut down the government rather than let Obamacare go into effect. The excuse was their objection to the requirement that insurance make contraception available without a copayment, saying ending this requirement matters more than “serving their own employees or the neediest Americans.”
The Christian right media has been hammering home the message that Christians should oppose the Affordable Care Act. Pat Necerato of the Christian News Network accused the supporters of the law of committing idolatry and accused people who want health care of being covetous. The Christian Post approvingly reported various Christian leaders, including Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, saying things like the health care law is “a profound attack on our liberties” and lamented “Today is the day I will tell my grandchildren about when they ask me what happened to freedom in America.”
Some in the Christian right straight up believe Obamacare portends the end times. Rick Phillips, writing for Christianity.com, hinted that Obamacare might be predicted in Revelations, though he held back from saying that was certain. Others are less cautious. On the right wing fundamentalist email underground, a conspiracy theory has arisen claiming that Obamacare will require all citizens to have a microchip implanted. While it’s completely untrue, many Christians believe that this means the “mark of the beast” predicted in Revelations that portends the return of Christ and the end of the world.
In other words, the Christian right has worked itself into a frenzy of believing that if this health care law is implemented fully, then we are, in fact, facing down either the end of American Christianity itself or quite possibly the end times themselves. In comparison, it’s hard to be too scared by the worldwide financial collapse that they’re promising to unleash if the Democrats don’t just give up their power and let Republicans do what they want. Sure, crashing stock markets, soaring unemployment, and worldwide economic depression sounds bad, but for the Christian right, the alternative is fire and brimstone and God unleashing all sorts of hell on the world.
This is a problem that extends beyond just the immediate manufactured crisis. The Christian right has become the primary vehicle in American politics for minimizing the problems of the real world while inventing imaginary problems as distractions. Witness, for instance, the way that fundamentalist Christianity has been harnessed to promote the notion that climate change isn’t a real problem. Average global temperatures are creeping up, but the majority of Christian conservatives are too worried about the supposed existential threats of abortion and gay rights to care.
Under the circumstances, it’s no surprise that it’s easy for Christian conservatives to worry more about imaginary threats from Obamacare than it is for them to worry about the very real threat to worldwide economic stability if the go along with their harebrained scheme of forcing the government into default. To make it worse, many have convinced themselves that it’s their opponents who are deluded. Take right wing Christian Senator Tom Coburn, who celebrated the possibility of default back in January by saying it would be a “wonderful experiment”. Being able to blow past all the advice of experts just to make stuff up you want to believe isn’t a quality that is unique to fundamentalists, but as these budget negotiations are making clear, they do have a uniquely strong ability to lie to themselves about what is and isn’t a real danger to themselves and to the world.
Amanda Marcotte is a Brooklyn-based freelance writer and journalist. She's published two books and blogs regularly at Pandagon, RH Reality Check and Slate's Double X. |
Crazy Christian fundies juiced up on self-fulfilling prophecy. |
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| tonyblair11 Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Total posts: 2080 |
| Posted: 13-10-2013 01:42 Post subject: |
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| How do I afford to buy something that I can't afford? A product that I am being forced to buy? I'd say they are looking out for the working poor. Thanks but no thanks. |
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| rynner2 What a Cad!
Great Old One Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Total posts: 21365 Location: Under the moon Gender: Male |
| Posted: 13-10-2013 09:27 Post subject: |
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Republicans with a death-wish are holding US to ransom
With the American government stuck in its second full week of a congressional-compelled shutdown, popular pressure is making even hyper-partisans sweat on Capitol Hill
By John Avlon
5:48PM BST 12 Oct 2013
After 12 days of stalemate, conversations – if not negotiations – have started.
But House Republicans remain deadlocked with the White House, its leadership constrained by their own far-Right-wing caucus, announcing to members in a closed-door session this morning that any deal would have to come from the Senate, where Mitch McConnell, the GOP minority leader, declared: “I’m willing to work with the government we have, not the one I wish we had.” This is a significant concession to reality.
Washington is engaged in a war of attrition – not just between Republicans and Democrats, but an increasingly vicious civil war within the GOP between the Tea Party and what remains of the responsible centre-Right.
The battle lines have been hardened over the past half-decade, as poisonous polarisation turned the idea of political opponents into personal enemies. Ideological divisions inside the Republican Party resulted in a hunt for heretics, with Tea Party senators like Ted Cruz and Mike Lee raising activist cash with infomercials to unseat fellow Republican incumbents, accusing them of being insufficiently conservative and therefore collaborators with President Barack Obama.
Fear over these proposed primary challenges led to a collapse of common sense as Republicans backed into a suicidal government shutdown strategy in an attempt to get President Obama to defund or delay his signature health care reform law. This was always going to be a non-starter because Democrats control the Senate as well as the White House. But Cruz & Co raised millions around this base-pleasing fantasy, without a real strategy for success.
Even a professional hyper-partisan like Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform felt compelled to criticise Mr Cruz, saying: “He pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away.”
And so the shutdown occurred, despite long-standing assurances to the contrary from GOP leadership. The inmates are now running the asylum and leadership looks impotent.
But the stalemate seemed briefly broken thanks to the looming prospect of hitting the debt ceiling on October 17 – the barrier by which the US government needs authorisation to borrow money or default on its debt. Nothing focuses the mind like the prospect of being hung, and the big money boys who fund various Tea Party groups as well as senior senators’ campaign coffers started to make their displeasure known: shut down the government over ObamaCare, sure – collapse the entire US economy, no way.
This financial incentive for strategic change was compounded by an unprecedented descent in the polls. Politics often echo lessons from the past, and pundits have been predicting that Republican House members would lose the shutdown fight, citing the example of the 1995 government shutdown that led to Bill Clinton’s re-election. The latest set of polls – most notably from Gallup and NBC/WSJ – show that Republicans are getting the lion’s share of the blame for the current division and dysfunction.
Seven in 10 Americans now say that the GOP are “putting politics ahead of their country”.
Moreover, polls show the Republican Party has the lowest popular approval rating of any political party in the history of polling.
etc...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/10374967/Republicans-with-a-death-wish-are-holding-US-to-ransom.html |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 13-10-2013 12:03 Post subject: |
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| tonyblair11 wrote: | | How do I afford to buy something that I can't afford? A product that I am being forced to buy? I'd say they are looking out for the working poor. Thanks but no thanks. |
Putting aside the possible religious motives and whatever the true story is on the affordability of Obamacare (opinions vary widely), do you really think that the modern Ayn Rand influenced Republican Party is "looking out for the working poor", rather than the huge and deep pocketed lobbies representing the vast private healthcare industry and the collective interests of the corporate and the the ultra-rich, who really appear to be calling the shots in the US these days?
How the Right in the US managed to wrap all that up in a belief that Obamacare is less than a step away from the Mark of the Beast and the Endtimes, would make somebody's doctoral thesis. |
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