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Posted: 17-06-2005 12:51 Post subject:

Same can be said for Jeffrey Dahmer. He pleaded guilty because he said he'd put his victims families through more than enough torment as it was without making them sit through a Not Guilty plea. Which displays a strange type of conscience and morality.

And, of course, John Wayne Gacy and his charitable events. Although I'm almost certain that was more to do with social standing than actual altruism on his part.

Posted: 18-06-2005 00:33 Post subject:

I don't know, you know - people are complex, aware of their failings. That kind of duality wouldn't surprise me. We must remember Nilsen's vehement attitude toward his union work; he was apparently quite impassioned about it. Apparently he was all for the underdog; surely an extension of the way he felt about himself (maybe Gacy felt the same?).

Posted: 18-06-2005 01:53 Post subject:

I think it's just a further example of, "Serial Killers are People Too". There's nice people and nasty people, and some of them are serial killers; if you know what I mean. I'd say Gacy wasn't a nice person at all; certainly people who knew him didn't like him much. Whereas Nilsen and Dahmer were more, well, bland really. People didn't care enough about them to like them or not.

Which isn't to say that's why they became serial killers.

Posted: 19-06-2005 00:07 Post subject:

I told one recently that it's the word 'evil' that clouds the issue; it makes the killers mythological things, monsters, and clouds our judgement terribly. Take the word away and what do we have? Illness, sickness? Human failings, problems. It puts them nearer to us, scary as they are - which is something that must surely happen.
BTW I can understand these people whose children or siblings kill and don't distance themselves from them; I was thinking recently that if my kid grew up to be a killer I'd not desert him. anyone have views on this? I suppose it depends on the crimes...

Posted: 19-06-2005 02:07 Post subject:

Posted: 19-06-2005 02:43 Post subject:

I think (hope?) that if I had a relative or loved one who turned out to be a murderer or other criminal that I would continue to love and support them, all the way through their arrest, conviction, and punishment.

I wouldn't try to keep them out of gaol, or to evade justice, unless I thought they were innocent, or possibly if I felt the law was unjust. (Not that the latter applies to murder or other violent crime.)

Posted: 19-06-2005 12:03 Post subject:

Condemn the sin, not the sinner.

Posted: 19-06-2005 13:50 Post subject:

Anyone see The Birdman of Alcatraz? He was a killer, and yet the most horrifying thing in it was the bit where his mum stopped fighting for his case when he managed to get himself a wife; in fact she recommended the courts keep him locked up!
In fact, to go back on topic, I believe our demonisation of criminals perpetuates the situation. If the notion of evil were dismissed people would only to be able to identify with illness, and that's a less glamorous/charged/potent role to adopt.

Posted: 15-08-2013 16:00 Post subject:

Apparently, Flat 23D Cranley Gardens, Muswell Hill, is up for sale. Would suit first time buyer. Lack of imagination preferred.

Posted: 15-08-2013 16:50 Post subject:

I've never read this thread before.
Interesting stuff, all of it.

However it would seem that I am the only person who doesn't have some kind of FOAF link to the man himself.

Posted: 16-08-2013 12:01 Post subject:

I'd never seen this thread before either - great stuff. The Santa Claus joke nearly made me wet myself.

Posted: 19-08-2013 21:40 Post subject:

Going back to the original UL, I may be able to shed more light on this. DN worked at the Jobcentre in Kentish Town and when I was a civil servant at a northern Jobcentre, it was widely rumoured that DN would cook a staff curry at Christmas time each year.

After leaving the civil service, I joined the Metropolitan Police and worked in the area which covered Muswell Hill and in fact, regularly worked at Hornsey Police station where DN was taken and interviewed. The rumour was also prevalent in these circles that he used to do a staff curry at the Jobcentre.

On visiting the crime museum at NSY, I can confirm that there is a large pot on display and yes, you have guessed it - DN is said by the curator to have used this pot to boil the flesh off the bones of victims!

Based on that assumption that nobody who lives alone needs more than one very large pot for cooking and also, the frankness displayed by DN in his interviews and subsequent trial as well as the heresay evidence from a number of sources - I conclude that on the balance of probabilities, the story that DN used the same pot to bail flesh off human remains AND to bring food to his co-workers is most certainly TRUE!

Posted: 19-08-2013 23:15 Post subject:

I read once that Nilllsen, Frank Kitson and Idi Amin were in the same Army unit in Kenya. Wonder if this is an Urban Legend?