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Vitrified Forts?
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PostPosted: 05-01-2005 22:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anybody got a good look at some of these vitrified forts and the fused stones, or even some clear photos? I haven't had a chance to see any of these forts, so any good descriptions would be very interesting.
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lemonpie3Offline
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PostPosted: 06-01-2005 12:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend once told me about spontaneously-combusting haystacks. Apparently some chemical process would happen on the inside if the hay was damp when the stack was made, causing them to smoulder, and they'd have to shave off the outside to get at the smouldering inside, which would burst into flames once it hit the outside air.

Perhaps there's something similar with the timbers?

Also, thinking about fuel (Many Angled One's post), peat burns pretty well. Was it used in the construction at all? To pad the walls, say.
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KondoruOffline
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PostPosted: 06-01-2005 18:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have visited many hillforts...never a vitrified one, sad to say.

What about a ritual aspect? A way of `killing` a captured fort?
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Dennis_De_BacleOffline
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PostPosted: 17-01-2005 16:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Names of several vitrified forts
Tap O'Noth
Craig Phadrig
Bute-Dunagoil

Quote:
...In two famous experiments in the 1930s, the great archaeologist Gordon Childe and his colleague Wallace Thorneycroft showed that forts could have been set on fire by invaders piling brushwood against the walls, and, more importantly, that the fires started in this manner could generate enough heat for the stones to vitrify.
In March 1934, a model murus Gallicus, 12ft (3.66m) long, 6ft (1.8m) wide and 6ft (1.8m) high, was built for them at Plean Colliery in Stirlingshire, They used old fireclay bricks for the faces, pit props as timber, and filled the cavity between the walls with small cubes of basalt rubble. Finally they covered the top with turf. Then they piled about four tons of scrap timber and brushwood against the walls and set fire to them. Despite a snowstorm the wood caught fire, and, three hours later, the wall began to collapse. This exposed the inner core which, fanned by a strong wind, grew hotter and hotter.
When Childe and Thorneycroft went through the remains of the wall next day, they found they had successfully reproduced the kind of vitrification they had seen in ancient forts. And they did it again in June 1937, when they fired another wall actually on the site of a vitrified fort at Rahoy in Argyllshire, using the rocks found there...

source
Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World
Simon Welfare & John Fairley
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gyrtrashOffline
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PostPosted: 18-01-2005 00:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homo Aves wrote:
I have visited many hillforts...never a vitrified one, sad to say.

What about a ritual aspect? A way of `killing` a captured fort?



Yeah, like 'torch the fort', we'll show 'em!


Off on a tangent slightly, when I was a kid, growing up in urban West Yorkshire, my mother used to warn me off playing on the 'slag heaps'. She said they were on fire below ground, I'm sure I remember them smoking. There were stories circulating (UL's?) about kids being swallowed by the slag heaps and being incinerated! Shocked
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 18-01-2005 19:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Androman said
Quote:
The Broch of Mousa on Shetland is still standing to a height of 14+ meters. That's fairly enormous for a free standing construction built using drystone walling techniques, I can assure you.

The broch on Mousa has just been surveyed. They reckon it'll stand for another couple of thousand years without much trouble. Not bad.

[/quote]Names of several vitrified forts
Tap O'Noth
Craig Phadrig
Bute-Dunagoil
[/quote]

Knockfarrel, near Strathpeffer
Another one on Conval, near Ben Rinnes, Dufftown.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 18-01-2005 19:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndroMan wrote:
Has anybody got a good look at some of these vitrified forts and the fused stones, or even some clear photos? I haven't had a chance to see any of these forts, so any good descriptions would be very interesting.


I was up at Knockfarrel at the weekend. It's not far so I'll be back soon no doubt.
There's not much to see truth be told. I'd have to take the experts word for it that it was a vitrification process that scarred the rocks. The ones that you can see just look kind of pock marked.
I suppose once you see the same rock markings at a few different sites you get an idea of what was going on, but if you just visited the one site then you would probably miss the significance of these marks.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 28-02-2005 20:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ancient Scots had Weapons of Mass Destruction

When Arthur C Clarke was interviewed by the Guardian in 2004 he was asked what he thought was the biggest mystery that he had encountered. He replied: "The oddest thing is these vitrified forts in Scotland. I just thought, how the hell? After all, lasers were not common in the Stone Age."

There are around 100 vitrified forts around the world, with over half in Scotland. They were built on strategic locations, and the stones were heated to such high temperatures that they fused together.

When Clarke’s team tried to recreate the vitrification process they concluded that the amount of heat needed to vitrify rocks was equivalent to an atomic bomb.

The ancient Indian epic, The Mahabharata, gives very precise details of "flying machines" that were used by the Indians thousands of years ago. They travelled great distances, and tellingly, these flying machines were said to possess incredibly powerful firearms.

The epic explains a hideous war that took place between the Indians and the Atlanteans, possessors of flying machines. They both used weapons of destruction, The Mahabharata notes: "[the weapon was] a single projectile charged with all the power of the universe. An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death."

In other words, they had firearms with the power of an atomic bomb. Enough to vitrify stones. Is it possibly that the vitrified forts of Scotland are the remnants of some cataclysmic war between the Indians and the Atlanteans, a war that wiped out all traces except for the remains of the forts?

scotsman.com rating
9/10 - That’s it, we’re converts! It all makes sense! We believe in the forts - if Arthur C Clarke says it's amazing, we believe it - so by extension we also buy Atlantis/Scotland. We believe in it all!
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PostPosted: 16-08-2008 19:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was watching the Tap O'Noth episode (ep. 3) of Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World the other night and it was the most interesting part. Does anyone know of any new theories as to how the fort became vitrified? They only manage to melt about three rocks in their experiment, in spite of all the heat.

Good pics here:
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/7507/tap_o_noth.html
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tilly50Offline
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PostPosted: 18-08-2008 09:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

When were these forts made? Were they used before being vitrified? Is the vitrification all over, on the outside or the inside?

Depending on a number of factors, rocks start to melt between 625-1200 degrees celsius, temperatures much higher than this are acheived in glass production.

I have never seen any of these vitrified forts and so I am wondering if they had been used as some sort of kiln for metal smelting or pottery on a massive scale.

They remind me of the folk/fairy tales about glass towers and mountains that the hero has to climb to rescue the princess.
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gncxxOffline
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PostPosted: 18-08-2008 17:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

See here for more info:
http://www.rcahms.gov.uk/pls/portal/newcanmore.details_gis?inumlink=17169

I'm not sure what could be made in kiln that size, unless they made tanks in the Iron Age. The walls are meant to keep someone out, but the purpose of vitrfying them is unknown, as is how they ended up that way. It's very strange.
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 27-08-2008 20:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's more likely that the 'forts' contained some sort of internal wooden framework and that they were set on fire by assailants.

Air drafting in through the dry stone work, might have been enough to raise the fire's temperature to something that could partially melt the stone's surface.

Perhaps, some sort of turf, or peat, roofing might have been involved, too?
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PostPosted: 18-09-2011 13:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Archaeologists probe Abbey Craig secrets
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-14945291

The fort is on the site of the Wallace Monument in Stirling

Related Stories

Anniversary of Wallace Monument
Wallace Monument to get upgrade

Archaeologists are leading volunteers in a four-day dig to uncover the hidden history beneath one of Scotland's most famous landmarks.

Experts are hoping to discover more about a tribe that lived in the fort below Abbey Craig in Stirling, on the site of the National Wallace monument.

The fort was destroyed in 780 AD, more than 500 years before William Wallace watched the English army approach.

The dig is one of a series of events to mark Scottish archaeology month.

Archaeologists first discovered the 1,300-year-old fort 10 years ago and concluded it was engulfed by a ferocious fire that fused together - or vitrified - the stone walls during a siege.

'Warlike past'
The stronghold is thought to have been called Iudeu.

Stirling Council archaeologist Murray Cook said the fort was occupied at a time when mainland Scotland was ruled by the ancient tribes of Picts, Celts, Britons, and Angles.

"Scotland has more known vitrified forts than anywhere else in Europe and here in Stirling we have our own that reflects our warlike past," he said.

"Despite a wealth of information known about the area there is relatively little known about this fort, however.

"The flames which lit up the sky would have been visible for miles around."

The dig will end on Monday.
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drbatesOffline
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PostPosted: 18-09-2011 20:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, oils like linseed can spontaneously combust...you can imagine that being used as a preservative and starting to burn deep within the pile.

Thats why if you use linseed you never crumple the cloth up, or just chuck it in the bin...especially cotton cloths IIRC
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feinmanOffline
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PostPosted: 31-01-2014 16:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've wondered about the forts for some time. Perhaps the vitrification was caused by massive electrical discharges? Perhaps associated with some kind of charging of our atmosphere from the sun? Otherwise, aliens are as good a guess as any.
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