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"Psychopaths" New Research & Studies.
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OldTimeRadioOffline
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PostPosted: 08-12-2006 02:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

feen5 wrote:
Your post only mentioned the europeans


Probably because my own ancestry is 100 percent European.

Quote:
]And i was trying to point out that its not a nationality problem its a Human problem no matter what continent your from.


But you also have to understand that during middle and late 19th Century, especially, MILLIONS of Europeans, and others, emigrated to the United States and Canada because they were tired, tired, tired of age-old clannish blood-feuds and ethnic hatreds in their own countries. So that cycle was broken and NOT passed onto their children.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 08-12-2006 10:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldTimeRadio wrote:
feen5 wrote:
Your post only mentioned the europeans


Probably because my own ancestry is 100 percent European.

Quote:
]And i was trying to point out that its not a nationality problem its a Human problem no matter what continent your from.


But you also have to understand that during middle and late 19th Century, especially, MILLIONS of Europeans, and others, emigrated to the United States and Canada because they were tired, tired, tired of age-old clannish blood-feuds and ethnic hatreds in their own countries. So that cycle was broken and NOT passed onto their children.


Not totally. unfortunately the KKK was very strong even up to the mid 20th century. Spreading hatred mostly against blacks but also against catholics and jews. In the 1920s & 30s when the Klan was at its height it concentrated a lot of its ire on the catholics.

Down in Louisiana the catholics were happy to put the boot into the coloureds. I could go on but I think a lot of the hatreds were brought to the US. Even in Canada there was discrimination against catholics.
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OldTimeRadioOffline
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PostPosted: 09-12-2006 04:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
Not totally. unfortunately the KKK was very strong even up to the mid 20th century.


But the KKK's ire was directed against the very immigrants of whom I wrote!
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 09-02-2009 14:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this fits here.

Quote:
Psychopaths' 'early release con'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7833672.stm

Gaining release may be easier for psychopaths
Psychopathic criminals are more likely to be released from prison than non-psychopaths, even though they are more likely to re-offend, a study suggests.

The Canadian research says psychopaths can charm and deceive prison staff and parole boards.

Psychopathy, a severe form of personality disorder, is characterised by superficial charm, pathological lying and a lack of remorse.

UK expert said psychologists were now on psychopaths' parole boards.

We need to acknowledge that psychopathy is largely unchangeable

Dr Stephen Porter, researcher
The study, published in the journal Legal and Criminological Psychology looked at 300 men who spent at least two years in a Canadian prison between 1995 and 1997.

Ninety of them were classed as being psychopathic.

The psychopaths had committed significantly more offences (both violent and non-violent), and psychopathic child abusers had far more charges and convictions than non-psychopathic offenders.

The researchers from Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia found psychopathic offenders were around 2.5 times more likely to have been given a conditional release than undiagnosed offenders.

And on average, psychopaths offended again, and were returned to prison after one year, compared with two for non-psychopaths.

Dr Stephen Porter, who led the research, said: "Psychopathic offenders are far more likely to re-offend, so they should be far less likely to be released.

"However, we found that psychopathic criminals were in fact highly successful in their bids for freedom."

He said the study findings were still "highly relevant".

Good show

"In Canada, it has common for mental health professionals, psychologists, criminologists, and other legal professionals to be included on parole boards for at least a decade.

"Research by several groups internationally has established that such professionals generally are no better than laypersons in detecting deception, at least without specialised training.

"Psychopaths are so adept at "putting on a good show" and using crocodile tears that they can be convincing to psychologists as well as other professionals.

"They use non-verbal behaviour, a "gift of gab", and persuasive emotional displays to put on an Oscar award winning performance and move through the correctional system and ultimately parole boards relatively quickly, despite their known diagnosis."

He said training for parole boards and psychologists needed to change.

"We need to acknowledge that training in this area is essential and that objective file information is much more reliable than trying to assess performance in an interview context.

"Further, we need to acknowledge that psychopathy is largely unchangeable.

"It isn't possible to miraculously create a 'conscience' in adults who have not had a conscience previously.

"It's the cold, hard truth. Acting ability should not be a criterion for release."

'Doubly hard to convince'

Luisa Williams, a forensic psychologist at Northumberland, Tyne and Wear NHS Trust, said: "Although we know that psychopathy is correlated with deception and we have tools which can measure the construct of psychopathy, measuring deception in itself remains a more arduous task.

"Ultimately, the acid test of whether an offender will re-offend lies only in their future behaviour."

Susan Bryne, a consultant forensic clinical psychologist and British Psychological Society spokeswoman, said parole boards in the UK were awareness of psychopathic manipulation had grown over the last decade.

"Many panels making decisions about release of this group of prisoners would have a psychologist as a panel member to advise on these issues. In the UK psychologists first were recruited to the Parole Board in 2003."

She said similar research would need to be done in the UK to establish the numbers of psychopaths and non-psychopaths who secure release from Parole Boards.

A spokesman for the Parole Board for England and Wales added: "We are well aware that anyone diagnosed as a psychopath might be showing such apparent improvement and we would therefore be doubly hard to convince that such improvement is genuine in their case."

"Our parole board members are aware that psychopaths may attempt to present in an overly positive manner and exercise caution when examining the evidence."



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AngelAliceOffline
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PostPosted: 15-02-2009 06:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no moe vexed or misunderstood concept that psychopathy. Even inside the medical fraternity it's a term frequently misapplied or misidentified.

Put simply, psychopathy is a falure of empathy and remorse. That's all. They are not even slightlly insane. Not deluded. In fact the organised ones tend to be more 'sane' and plausible and goal-oriented than the average person. Psychopaths are no more likely to want to rape or torture or murder or steal than any normal person. But if they should ever have such a motive; if murder would bring them personal gain, or if rape took their fancy, they are much much more likely to go ahead and act on it.

That is why we see so many psychopaths in the prison system. But it's also why we tend to see the better organised psychopaths in positions of authority and power - because they were ruthless enough to do what was needed to get there.

Psychopaths can be found anywhere. The little old lady next door, who is always very sweet, but also seems to enjoy playing tiny little power games with her friends and family; your charismatic friend at work who gets all the promotions and no one quite knows why; the loser in the bedsit who stole the old guys social security checks on a whim; the multimillionaire who has it all.

And of course the charming Green Beret, who stages a hippy-murder to free himself of his wife and children, because they are just an inconvenience.

That's why they are dangerous. Not because they are hooked on blood-lust. But because if your death would benefit them by even a little, they are quite likely to try and encompass it if they get the chance, and if they have the guts.
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Timble2Offline
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PostPosted: 15-02-2009 09:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if we look at literary psychpoaths, I'd guess that Patricia Highsmith's Tom Ripley, who's charming and manipulative and only kills people when it's necessary, is more realistic than Hannibal Lector, who's essentially Satan in human form....
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PostPosted: 16-02-2009 11:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timble2 wrote:
So if we look at literary psychpoaths, I'd guess that Patricia Highsmith's Tom Ripley, who's charming and manipulative and only kills people when it's necessary, is more realistic than Hannibal Lector, who's essentially Satan in human form....


The Ripley in the original novel is actually a textbook psychopath, and beautifully drawn. Minghella ruined it in the movie by giving him remorse, which shows he really failed to comprehend the nature of the beast.
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 16-02-2009 12:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

AngelAlice wrote:
...

Put simply, psychopathy is a falure of empathy and remorse. That's all. They are not even slightlly insane. Not deluded. In fact the organised ones tend to be more 'sane' and plausible and goal-oriented than the average person. Psychopaths are no more likely to want to rape or torture or murder or steal than any normal person. But if they should ever have such a motive; if murder would bring them personal gain, or if rape took their fancy, they are much much more likely to go ahead and act on it.

That is why we see so many psychopaths in the prison system. But it's also why we tend to see the better organised psychopaths in positions of authority and power - because they were ruthless enough to do what was needed to get there.

...

Of course, a social animal which cannot empathise and is so unsociable, as to constitute a serious threat to the well-being of the Society to which it belongs and to its more normal members, is indeed insane. Unfortunately, sociability is so undervalued in Western Society, that it is actually often seen as a threat and the ability to empathise is also often seen as a sign of weakness.

That may be because we live in a society run by sociopaths, but nonetheless, it really is a form of insanity, not just something to be explained away as a 'personality disorder'. They should be fixed, if they are dangerous. If that means cutting out the bits of their brains that don't work properly, then so be it. A vegetablized psycopath would still be healthier for the Society at large than a malfunctioning member of that Society, who preys on its more sociable and sane members.

Catch them young and, admittedly, the world of business and politics might look very different, more humane. Nor, would Society necessarily resemble some 'Borg' style, hive-mind, nightmare, as portrayed in in certain forms of popular science fiction.

It's all a matter of perspective and priorities. The greater good, is not something out of a horror movie, although, SF author, Alfred Bester, did write an interesting novel on the subject, 'The Demolished Man', back in the early Fifties.
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Black River FallsOffline
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PostPosted: 16-02-2009 21:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to my therapist, psychopaths aren;t truly 100% remorseless, but they fail to make the connection between doing something that hurts someone and feeling crappy about it. Apparently the reason why a lot of them tend towards alcohol or other addictions is because it's an attempt to try and blot out the crappy feelings.
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PostPosted: 17-02-2009 17:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting. One would think that somebody devoid of remorse would be quite cheerful, but I don't get the impression that psychopaths are very happy. To my knowledge I've only known one personally (I worked with her) and she was very unhappy.
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PostPosted: 17-02-2009 18:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought it was sociopaths who lacked any kind of remorse and psychopaths who held onto an over abundance of negative emotion resulting in their need to kill. Usually motivated by rage directed at a particular stereotype. The dark haired woman in her thirties who reminds him of the mother who beat him as a child for example.

It's all so confusing to be honest.
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PostPosted: 18-02-2009 11:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

river_styx wrote:
I always thought it was sociopaths who lacked any kind of remorse and psychopaths who held onto an over abundance of negative emotion resulting in their need to kill. Usually motivated by rage directed at a particular stereotype. The dark haired woman in her thirties who reminds him of the mother who beat him as a child for example.

It's all so confusing to be honest.



The difference between 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' is murky. For some 'sociopath 'has become the preferred term for psychopathy, precisely to avoid the confusion engendered by the term 'psycho', that has led to people assuming the sufferers of this condition to be insane. For others sociopathy and psychopathy are separate but related conditions. In general, psychopaths are considered to be less amenable to treatment and more inclined towards high risk behaviour than sociopaths, but both basically lack empathy and remorse, and 'suffer' the consequences of this disability.

As to the extent to which they 'really' feel no remorse, the question is difficult to answer, because any psychopath asked the question will unhesitatingly assure you he feels endless remorse for anything bad he has done, because he knows he is 'supposed' to say that, and might be rewared for doing so. And because they tend to be very plausible people, adept at pushing the buttons of those they interact with, even seasoned therapists can be taken in by such displays. This can skew the data quite considerably.

There is also a reluctance in all of us to accept that a human being can live comfortably without regret, empathy or a sense of guilt, and so we tend to supply the deficit, by our own imagination and assumption. If a psychopath drinks or takes recreational drugs we might assume he is 'really' burdened with more conscience that he seems to display. But this is possibly more about making us feel more comfortable than about really understanding the psychopathic mind.

In my personal experience I would tend to say psychopaths lack any useful amount of empathy (though they may at least manifest a little), and, beneath their quite terrifying arsenal of charm and pretense and superficial insight and intelligence, they are extraordinarily damaged and limited human beings, whose inner turmoil tends to be based, not on residual remorse, but on resentment and self-pity, engendered by their perception that they are blamed and punished for deeds (not necessarily crimes, sometimes merely inappropriate personal ethics) they truly see as being not wrong at all.

Basically if you know one, give them a wide berth.
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PostPosted: 18-02-2009 11:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if the psychopath knows what they're expected to say then you could argue that on some level they know that their actions are wrong?

After all, a part of lying is knowing that you're required to avoid the truth and to know that is to accept the truth in the first place.
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PostPosted: 18-02-2009 12:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

river_styx wrote:
So if the psychopath knows what they're expected to say then you could argue that on some level they know that their actions are wrong?

After all, a part of lying is knowing that you're required to avoid the truth and to know that is to accept the truth in the first place.


No, they know other people think their actions are wrong, and that, if they want to avoid too much censure or punishment, they must play along.

It really is that frighteningly simple!
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PostPosted: 18-02-2009 12:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then you enter into the question of behavioural science.

Do I act the way I do because society expects it of me or because it's how I choose to act?

I have been conditioned to respond in sociably acceptable ways by interacting with my peers and family group. If I do something that is not right I know this by way of their reaction and respond accordingly.

Isn't that the same as a psychopath?

I guess it goes back to the earlier statement that really we're all psychopaths. Just some are a little more extreme.
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