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| Have you been abducted by aliens |
| yes |
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1% |
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| no |
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67% |
[ 44 ] |
| Maybe |
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[ 11 ] |
| I wish |
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| Total Votes : 65 |
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OldTimeRadio Great Old One Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Total posts: 5539 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA Age: 72 Gender: Male |
 Posted: 20-08-2006 20:55 Post subject: |
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Yes, I've spent many pleasant hours on Magonia, reading and downloading much. But I hadn't been for some time, and there seems to be a lot of new material, so thanks much for the link. |
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| RainyOcean Alien Kitty
Peek-A-Boo Joined: 19 May 2004 Total posts: 2006 Location: In my basement making a suit out of human skin Age: 31 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 24-08-2006 22:13 Post subject: |
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| I voted "maybe". When I first joined here I put something in IHTM that could be seen as an alien abduction, but which also has other explanations. (I don't feel like dealing with the search function. Sorry). I do believe that aliens exist and that they are visiting Earth though. So while I can't vote "yes" as I'm not so sure there's not a more normal explanation, I can't vote "no" either. |
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| OldTimeRadio Great Old One Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Total posts: 5539 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA Age: 72 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 25-08-2006 01:33 Post subject: |
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| RainyOcean wrote: | | So while I can't vote "yes" as I'm not so sure there's not a more normal explanation, I can't vote "no" either. |
That seems to be the only solidly Fortean approach to the matter. |
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| Jerry_B Great Old One Joined: 15 Apr 2002 Total posts: 8265 |
| Posted: 25-08-2006 08:45 Post subject: |
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Or is it, if one also believes that 'aliens exist and that they are visiting Earth'?  |
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| Dingo667 I'm strange...but true Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Total posts: 1977 Location: Deep in the Fens, UK Age: 46 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 25-08-2006 10:14 Post subject: |
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Just reading "Supernatural" by Graham Hancock. In short it talks about visions that you get when in an altered state of mind [drugs, trance dance etc]. On his own ayahuasca trips he encountered beings that could easily be described as the typical "grey". Ancient murals which may well depict shamanic scenes [I believe they do, best explanation yet] as encountered in a trance also show domed heads and pointy chins.
He then goes a step furthere and wonders what if these visions are actually a glimpse into another realm, of beings that have actually made us humans what we are today by teaching and guiding us.
One thing about becoming a shaman is the excrutiating torture they sometimes have to go through by these beings and when out of the trance they are reborn as fully fledged shamans with added abilities.
This short account doesn't do justice to the reasoning and the wording of the book as he is quite aware of the audacity of this idea. But I don't want to discuss the book, what came to me yesterday is the fact that those shamanic experiences seem to be quite similar to alien abductions.
Using beings from a different dimension or realm as a basis could explain why abductees can fly through walls, their environment can change dreamlike and there is the element of torture and fear without actually leaving their beds.
Which had always my main concern against alien abduction, the fact that they hadn't moved and their partners handn't noticed anything but this theory would explain even that. If the journey is only in the mind, of course they wouldn't move.
Shamans endure the tortures because they know that it will lead to wisdom. Abductees who don't have the spiritual link or interest will be mortified rather than anything else. Not knowing the why nor the where.
If hallucinogenic drugs could be used for their "intended" purpose [which is to find out more about yourself and the universe we live in or in a shamanic way and used with guidance of experienced individuals] I feel that people could only benefit! It is the same for driving a car, if you drive without much knowledge, you bound to have an accident or at least a few near misses. But the war on drugs and the irrational fear of people of drugs is taking a vital ancient part out of humanity which has been practiced for thousands of years.
Now that I have found a different angle on the abduction scenario I can go back and imply it and see if it is of any worth. |
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| OldTimeRadio Great Old One Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Total posts: 5539 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA Age: 72 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 26-08-2006 09:54 Post subject: Fortean Approach |
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| Jerry_B wrote: | | Or is it, if one also believes that 'aliens exist and that they are visiting Earth'? |
The Fortean approach must be at least a willingness to consider evidences in favor of, say, the literal existence of the Easter Bunny. But to pontificate that "the Easter Bunny absolutely exists and that physical existence has been indisputably proven" is NOT Fortean. |
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| crunchy5 Great Old One Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Total posts: 1951 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 05-09-2006 15:08 Post subject: |
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Here's an interesting article about the late John Mack an the subject in hand 
http://www.fatemag.com/issues/2000s/2006-09article1a.html
| Quote: | But even as courageous as Dr. Mack was in asserting that abductees were not suffering from mental disorders and that they were not hoaxers or in any way delusional, he could not come forward and tell all he knew about the reality behind the UFO mystery. In the months before his untimely and tragic death (he was run down by a drunk driver in London in September 2004) he asked me to join him and California hypnotherapist Barbara Lamb in a project to make public the information we had each collected independently, but which he had not previously discussed in his two books on the abduction phenomenon.
This project was to deal with the three forbidden “Rs” of ufology. Mack’s concept was to write a joint paper for publication, perhaps even a book, dealing with a variety of topics, including the many cases in which individuals report contact with non-human entities with distinctly reptilian features. Such reports have been known to researchers since at least the early 1990s, but few have been anxious to write about them or to speak on the subject publicly.
Religion and UFOs
Additionally, Dr. Mack wanted to discuss the problematic issue of the ancient history of a sentient serpent race that is found in ancient texts, such as the Vedic literature from India and the Sumerian texts from Mesopotamia, as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Bible. I say problematic, because ufologists, in general, struggle to maintain the notion that the UFO mystery began only 50 or so years ago. By maintaining this arbitrary timeline, they are able to profess that the phenomenon is either a scientific study by aliens from nearby star systems, or the early stages of an alien invasion. Those are the only conclusions one can reasonably come to if UFOs are something relatively new. But what kind of study or invasion takes thousands of years? What if these so-called “aliens” have always been here, and ancient writings portray encounters with them? What if the gods of old are the aliens of today?
If this is so, the study of ufology cannot avoid delving into both ancient religions and contemporary ones. This is a terrible dilemma for those wishing to make the study of UFOs an acceptable mainstream science. Debunkers already love to claim that those interested in UFOs are cultists, or that ufology is itself a religion and, therefore, not a science. Now an eminent scientist and UFO researcher was about to state publicly that reptilian beings exist and that they may have been here for thousands of years! That would certainly have rocked the ufology boat and made waves in the scientific community.
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and it continues. |
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| H_James Ancient Cow (&)
Creepy thing Joined: 18 May 2002 Total posts: 5624 |
| Posted: 05-09-2006 17:07 Post subject: |
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| Dingo667 wrote: | Shamans endure the tortures because they know that it will lead to wisdom. Abductees who don't have the spiritual link or interest will be mortified rather than anything else. Not knowing the why nor the where.
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I think I see what you mean. What I'd think is that the torture would be symbolic of the gruelling soul searching one'd have to go through in order to achieve a state of wisdom, or even of spiritual receptivity. This wouldn't have to be purely metaphorical, it might be experienced as well. But yer typical abductee might not be going through that same process. |
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| Jerry_B Great Old One Joined: 15 Apr 2002 Total posts: 8265 |
| Posted: 05-09-2006 17:13 Post subject: |
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| There is a definite process to the shamanic experience - I don't think this is anything to do with what abductees claim to experience. |
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| H_James Ancient Cow (&)
Creepy thing Joined: 18 May 2002 Total posts: 5624 |
| Posted: 05-09-2006 17:52 Post subject: |
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| There's a definite process, also, to the abduction experience. If, from my point of view, the Shamanic experience reflects something internal, on a symbolic scale, then, arguably, also from my point of view, "abduction experiences" could do the same, but probably in doing so reflect a different internal process. |
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| Jerry_B Great Old One Joined: 15 Apr 2002 Total posts: 8265 |
| Posted: 05-09-2006 20:08 Post subject: |
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| Well, I dunno - the process behind shamanic experience is preparatory to quite a large extent. I think that the only way that abduction stuff could be similar is via the hypnotist-abductee relationship, mixed in with belief priming the whole situation. |
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| graylien Great Old One Location: Norwich - home of the Puppet Man! Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 05-09-2006 22:19 Post subject: |
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Patrick Harpur does a fairly good job of equating alien abductions with various other kinds of mystical experiences (including Shamanic journeys) in his book Daimonic Reality.
He expands on these themes in the follow up The Philosopher's Secret Fire, but I'm afraid that one went completely over my head and I have no idea what he was going on about. |
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| Jerry_B Great Old One Joined: 15 Apr 2002 Total posts: 8265 |
| Posted: 05-09-2006 23:31 Post subject: |
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| Ah, but I'd argue that shamanic journeys aren't the same as shamanic rituals which prepare for that journey. The odd disassociative aspects of shamanic journeys and abduction experiences may have some similarities, but how either percipient gets to that point is very much different. |
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| H_James Ancient Cow (&)
Creepy thing Joined: 18 May 2002 Total posts: 5624 |
| Posted: 06-09-2006 01:43 Post subject: |
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| Very true. |
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| graylien Great Old One Location: Norwich - home of the Puppet Man! Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 08-09-2006 20:56 Post subject: |
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| Jerry_B wrote: | | Ah, but I'd argue that shamanic journeys aren't the same as shamanic rituals which prepare for that journey. The odd dissociative aspects of shamanic journeys and abduction experiences may have some similarities, but how either percipient gets to that point is very much different. |
I suppose one key issue here is whether abductees are merely remembering their 'journeys' through hypnotic regression or are actually creating them under hypnosis. If so, one might view the act of hypnosis itself as being equivalent to the Shaman's preparatory rituals. Or at least as being a short-cut to attaining the same altered state of consciousness. |
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