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Cochise Great Old One Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Total posts: 1104 Location: Gwynedd, Wales Age: 58 Gender: Male |
 Posted: 04-10-2013 08:08 Post subject: |
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It's the differential treatment of women/girls I find totally unacceptable. I can cope with a hostile religion. After all, there are plenty of people out there hostile to my religion.
I can't believe that the women of my generation, who had to fight prejudice at all levels to be taken seriously in their jobs, can stand back and see this going on in our country. Working in the same area as my wife, I saw how sometimes she had to fight to be taken seriously - and some embittered old misogynists never did, even when she helped them solve their problems. I myself have fought senior management to get female staff promoted to the level their skills deserve, or to prevent them being sacked because they were pregnant (the latter cases in the US). These experiences were 10-30 years ago, but I doubt true equality for people of equal ability has been achieved even now.
That some free born British women are prepared, against this background, to defend the introduction of these actively discriminatory practices by religious extremists on multi-cultural or diversity grounds I find literally beyond my understanding. Standing on different sides of the church is one thing, preventing women getting an equal education is another. |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 08:56 Post subject: |
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When the school in Derby was closed, the other day, I heard one mother on BBC Radio4, complaining about it. I think she said that she had two sons and a daughter at the school and that in other schools there was far too much, 'messing about'. I have a hard enough time explaining British school uniforms to my Dutch kids, as it is. I also remember when all the, male, teachers used to wear black cloaks. But, I'm sure that's quite different from the wearing of headscarves.
Anyway, even from a Muslim perspective, there seems to have been doubts about the school, for all sort of reasons, apart from the wearing of headscarves and just what was Michael Gove's role in the whole affair?
| Quote: | http://www.5pillarz.com/2013/10/02/al-madinah-free-school-michael-goves-moderate-muslim-experiment-exposed/
Al Madinah free school: Michael Gove’s “moderate Muslim experiment” exposed
5Pillarz. 2 October 2013
Following last week’s allegations regarding the al-Madinah School in Derby (whose trustees were allegedly promoting extremism whilst financial irregularities were being investigated), the school has today been shut down, writes Zafer Iqbal.
The headteacher is citing a temporary closure due to health and safety concerns whilst reports are circulating that many of the staff had never been Disclosure and Barring Service checked.
Whilst Ofsted – the Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services and Skills – has been asked to investigate the school and its practices, Education Secretary Michael Gove and his department’s role in all this has been largely ignored by the media.
Allegations
So exactly why did the Department for Education (DfE) ignore the concerns and complaints preceding the opening of al-Madinah School?
Prior to the opening, the local press, union leaders, and the Muslim community raised a number of concerns surrounding the founders, their backgrounds, the lack of transparency in the application process, deception of community members in supporting their application, and alleged intimidation.
Whilst all of these matters were brought to the attention of local councillors, the police, and the DfE, no serious steps were taken by any of these bodies. Later, the school was approved and funding released.
Unanswered Questions
The founders of al-Madinah school comprised of a group of ex-committee members of a local institution, supported by a former council worker who facilitated PVE funds for controversial projects.
In the application process, this close-knit group portrayed themselves as a diverse group of “local parents, teachers, and business owners.” They omitted to highlight whilst acting as committee members, they spent over £70K of funds on a crèche, which Ofsted failed on virtually every point, reporting:
“The leadership and management of the setting is not effective… Systems to monitor and evaluate practice within the setting have not been appropriately devised… Interaction is ineffective in supporting and guiding children’s learning… Staff demonstrates an awareness of the range of policies and procedures. However they do not always successfully implement them which potentially impacts on children’s welfare… Additionally, some of the written policy documents do not reflect practice within the setting. ”
Worryingly Ofsted had highlighted a concern that has now resurfaced:
“Recruitment procedures are not sufficiently robust to ensure that adults are safe to work with children, as there are significant gaps in the information gathered from some applicants and insufficient checks undertaken.
“Additionally, the risk assessment does not include all of the relevant information and identify potential risks and hazards to children in all aspects of the environment…”
In addition, financial auditors repeatedly refused to sign off the accounts over their entire tenure at the charitable institution due to concerns about financial irregularities – with similar allegations now being raised.
Loans were taken to purchase a property for a school project, which came to be ultimately rejected as an unsuitable location for a school. The new committee had to dispose of this property and spent considerable time and effort rectifying the crèche, whilst bringing the financial situation under control.
Inappropriate Delegation
As part of the application process, the founders appear to have designated the school as “faith ethos” as opposed to “religious character.”
The latter designation was historically maintained in law as it permitted Christian schools to adopt a religious ethos and implement religious tests to appoint, remunerate, promote, and discipline/dismiss teachers – something that may be useful for conduct but which is incompatible with Islamic precepts.
It also permitted schools to discriminate admissions on religious grounds and opt out of controversial subjects that conflicted with their values and ideals.
It is puzzling why the “faith ethos” designation was chosen for an Islamic School, since had they chosen otherwise, many of the current allegations could have easily been avoided with new staff clear about expectations before even applying.
Duplicity
In meetings with parents, the founders were asked why the website and brochure stated al-Madinah school would be a “multi-faith” school rather than an “Islamic” one, as per their verbal claims and assurances.
Parents were informed the communications material was for government consumption, with plans to discretely “Islamise” the school. When told this was potentially fraudulent, dishonest, deceptive, and would bring the community and Islam into disrepute, the founders claimed a local Imam had endorsed their approach.
What they ignored was this endorsement was negligent, unprofessional, and foolish if not illegal – something they were advised at the time.
Lack of Transparency
The founders repeatedly pressured community organisations to endorse the school. Given community concerns relating to deceiving community members in providing support for their application, lack of community representation, and lack of transparency, organisations asked for copies of application paperwork including minutes of meetings with the DfE and the security services. Nothing was provided.
Members of the community who requested the same were stonewalled – at meetings they would be told to leave, the head would be asked not to answer questions, and the police would be called.
Concerns were raised to local councillors, the police, and the DfE – none seemed interested in investigating, despite millions of taxpayers’ monies being used to fund it.
Michael Gove
It then begs the question, why would Michael Gove, Secretary of Education, approve such a school and provide it with millions in funding?
Beginning life as a journalist, Michael Gove authored the controversial “Celsius 7/7,” having “discovered” Islam was a secular religion with no say in social, political, or economic matters – views adopted by members of the government after receiving a copy.
Gove has no expertise in Islam or Islamism however as ex-chairman of the Policy Exchange, a UK-based think tank, he published an infamous book “The Hijacking of British Islam,” which made claim that masjids were selling extremist literature to the public.
The BBC’s Newsnight later revealed that many of the receipts the Policy Exchange had shown as proof of purchases had actually been forged.
Ken Livingstone said: “People like Michael Gove and others have been stridently Islamophobic for some time, and they assume there are votes in this.” When asked to justify this statement, he replied: “Just look at his writings and the general tone he takes is to depict Islam as genuinely a threat. He’s at the extreme end of this.”
This dislike is reflected in his speech to the Policy Exchange in relation to free schools, where Gove stated: “…we are determined to ensure that those who receive public funding – and especially those who are shaping young minds – do not peddle an extremist agenda… we have set up a dedicated team within the Department who will rigorously police any application for public money, including Free School applications.
“And we make it explicit in the application guidance that we will reject any proposers who advocate violence, intolerance, or hatred, or whose ideology runs counter to the UK’s democratic values.”
Trojan Horse
It is then not really a mystery as to why Gove and his department repeatedly refused to investigate claims of duplicity, fraud, and intimidation by the al-Madinah founders.
I believe he was attempting to recruit stooges that would further his Trojan horse ideological agendas through the vehicle of a so-called “Islamic school.”
Perhaps his new apprentices assured him they would promote his dubious version of Islam and his department in turn promised them the opportunity of setting up a series of such schools across the country.
Many members of the community reported that the founders had meetings with members of the Department of Education including Gove himself, meetings were held in their homes behind closed doors and all attempts at determining what was discussed have been blocked.
Not only that the founders are alleged to have told community members that the Department of Education allegedly took all objections from the community and threw them in the bin in one of their meetings with Gove; they told the founders that Derby is an extremist hotspot and the school will need to counter it, (a Derby Evening Telegraph article was even released stating the school will be an “anti-extremist school”).
Serious concerns if they turn out to be true.
As the Rand Foundation had recommended, governments should conceal the shortcomings of their advocates and publically expose the shortcomings of their enemies.
It is for this reason no investigation was ordered and little information has ever been revealed despite freedom of information requests having been made to the department.
Welcome to the hijacking of schooling by Gove to promote his nefarious ideologies.
The opinions expressed in this article are the author’s alone and do not necessarily reflect those of 5Pillarz. Michael Gove and the founders of al Madinah school will have a full right of reply if they wish to have it. |
Curious stuff. So, just what was Michael Gove's involvement?
For local news perspective:
http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Teachers-Derby-s-Muslim-school-ordered-wear/story-19822232-detail/story.html |
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| Cochise Great Old One Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Total posts: 1104 Location: Gwynedd, Wales Age: 58 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 09:16 Post subject: |
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The black cloak was originally no more than an indication you were a graduate.(or maybe a Master?) In my day, not all teachers were even graduates, they could come into the system via teacher training college.
School uniform - not a problem. Even for me, an habitual non-conformist.
Headscarf - not a problem either, for me. Unless imposed.
Face covering - problem, because it affects security and communication and arguably flies in the face of our way of dealing with each other as a society. We would mostly feel uncomfortable talking to someone wearing a mask, I think. I'm sure that its not just me.
Making girls sit at the back - problem. Pure discrimination.
I think any society that calls itself such has to draw some lines somewhere - these lines might be different in different societies, but for a society to function it has to have some lines that go together to stop it falling apart into mutually hostile factions. I do realise not all members of a society would want to draw the lines in the same places, but if different sectors within the society cannot compromise then eventually they will not be part of the same society.
I would quote the various Chinese communities in our country as a people that do not want to totally integrate, but neither do they try to change the way our society works to accommodate them. They are apparently happy to work within the general parameters our society accepts. |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 11:09 Post subject: |
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| Cochise wrote: | ...
School uniform - not a problem. Even for me, an habitual non-conformist.
Headscarf - not a problem either, for me. Unless imposed.
... |
So, what if the headscarf is part of the school uniform? |
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| Quake42 Warrior Princess
Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5310 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 11:25 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Curious stuff. So, just what was Michael Gove's involvement?
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The idea that the Secretary of State personally approves every application for "free school" status, having first pored over the application and researched the background of those involved, is pretty ludicrous. This article seems to belong in the loopy conspiracy theory box along with most false flag claims. I note that "5 Pillarz" proudly describes itself as having an "Islamic ethos" and so is unlikely to be a neutral source of information on this topic.
| Quote: | | So, what if the headscarf is part of the school uniform? |
A headscarf should not be part of a school uniform in the UK any more than any other religious symbol should be. I am sure you would be the first person to be up in arms if a state funded school was forcing its pupils to wear crucifixes.
It is unfortunate that a large part of the Left has invested so much in Islam on the basis of its "anti-imperialist" credentials and is as a result twisting itself into knots over the logic of its position. Time to ditch the medieval clerical totalitarianism and get back to Enlightenment values.
*Edited for typo |
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| JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Total posts: 5779 Location: Manchester, UK Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 12:14 Post subject: |
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The Gove conspiracy article is very curious. I doubt if he was very aware of shades of Islam at work in Derby. The perceived contradiction in his views comes from his use of religious zealots to undermine local education authorities and accountability. Turning a blind eye to what he would regard as the squawks of old vested interests has simply blown up in his face.
To credit him with a Trojan Horse is too kind - his bellowings sound like one caught inside the brazen bull he designed!
Meanwhile, Islamic pupils at a Catholic school in Accrington are refusing to shave their beards - an analogy, perhaps, to the veil or mask, since beards are not officially an essential requirement of the faith. They are fourteen years old, so perhaps feel entitled to all the fluff they can muster!
An amusing diversion in the Comments arises when one poster refers to the boys' right to have "bears" in school!
Boy Beards in Accrington |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 13:08 Post subject: |
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| Quake42 wrote: | ... I am sure you would be the first person to be up in arms if a state funded school was forcing its pupils to wear crucifixes.
... |
Once again, jumping to conclusions. I'd simply find it a bit odd. I'm sure many school uniforms already have crucifixes emblazoned on their blazer pockets as part of the school badge. But then, I find school uniforms, especially the ones that stipulate skirts for girls and trousers (not jeans), for boys, a bit odd, too. |
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| Quake42 Warrior Princess
Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5310 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 13:15 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm sure many school uniforms already have crucifixes emblazoned on their blazer pockets as part of the school badge |
Not really comparable, is it? A cross (not a crucifix) is a common part of European heraldry and so may well feature on a school crest. That's rather different to forcing a pupil to wear an overtly religious symbol such as a crucifix or headscarf. |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 13:18 Post subject: |
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| I suspect that people of other faiths or none, might demur. |
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| Quake42 Warrior Princess
Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5310 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 13:24 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I suspect that people of other faiths or none, might demur. |
Really? I've heard people scream "offence" at all sorts of things, but not heraldic designs incorporated into school crests. Do you have any example or is this just yet another bit of whataboutery in defence of Islamic cultural practices? |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 19:43 Post subject: |
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| Quake42 wrote: | | Quote: | | I suspect that people of other faiths or none, might demur. |
Really? I've heard people scream "offence" at all sorts of things, but not heraldic designs incorporated into school crests. Do you have any example or is this just yet another bit of whataboutery in defence of Islamic cultural practices? |
Probably about as much evidence as you have that non-Christians don't take offence. I was just making a reasonable assumption.
Why do some schools and workplaces insist on skirts for girls? |
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| JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Total posts: 5779 Location: Manchester, UK Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 22:03 Post subject: |
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PM: "Why do some schools and workplaces insist on skirts for girls?"
Would you like to start a thread? |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 22:23 Post subject: |
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| JamesWhitehead wrote: | PM: "Why do some schools and workplaces insist on skirts for girls?"
Would you like to start a thread? |
Probably not. Transformational grammar and the demands of gender conformism on feminine modesty in dress, wouldn't fit easily on a thread title. |
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| Cochise Great Old One Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Total posts: 1104 Location: Gwynedd, Wales Age: 58 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 05-10-2013 10:02 Post subject: |
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| Pietro_Mercurios wrote: | | Cochise wrote: | ...
School uniform - not a problem. Even for me, an habitual non-conformist.
Headscarf - not a problem either, for me. Unless imposed.
... |
So, what if the headscarf is part of the school uniform? |
It would then be the same for everyone and OK, as far as I am concerned. No different to a cap or boater. But if it was the usual kind of rules, you'd take off any head covering indoors anyway.
I meant imposed on an individual against their will - not as a requirement for going to a particular school. I think some of our public schools have had even more bizarre uniforms than that!
I wouldn't be OK with a face covering required as part of a school uniform, or a hobble skirt for that matter. And, frankly, I don't believe anyone in a free and open society should be content with any clothing imposed, whether by school uniform or parents or religion, that handicaps a child (or adult's) chances of fully developing their skills, whatever they may be.
You can of course push any example to extreme, but that is why compromise is required before you get there, otherwise you end up arguing about the number of angels on the head of a pin. I have no figures, but I suspect the vast majority of people in this country now find overt discrimination against women unacceptable, however much some men fail to realise how much they do it at a subliminal level, and equally the vast majority find the idea of working with people with covered faces unacceptable and indeed intimidating.
It's not just Muslim attire, either, which is why I deliberately use the English words. We don't accept masked people in our society, it is taken as an indication of criminality, actual or potential, unless the context clearly suggests humorous or frivolous intent.
I'm no supporter of radical feminism, I fervently believe men and women are different and we should celebrate that rather than try to eliminate it, but human beings should have equality before the law and equal opportunity (and pay) for equal skills.
We are human first and men and women (plus a few caught in the middle) second. |
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