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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 26-01-2007 10:23 Post subject: |
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| techybloke666 wrote: | He did it to himself , he did
And that's what really hurts
Is that He did it to himself
Just him and no-one else
He did it to himself
He did it to himself |
sick, very sick.
i have a feeling an earlier number from the oxford optimists might be equally fitting.
I cant afford to breathe in this town
Nowhere to sit with out a gun in my hand
Look back up to the cathode ray...
Im better off dead
Im better off dead
Im better off... |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 26-01-2007 13:37 Post subject: |
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UK wants to try Russian for Litvinenko murder
The British government is preparing to demand the extradition of a Russian businessman to stand trial for the poisoning with polonium-210 of the former KGB officer Alexander Litvinenko. Senior Whitehall officials have told the Guardian that a Scotland Yard file on the murder which is about to be passed to the Crown Prosecution Service alleges that there is sufficient evidence against Andrei Lugovoi for the CPS to decide whether he should face prosecution.
The government is already bracing itself for the cooling of relations with Moscow, which it believes will be an inevitable consequence of an extradition request. The request could be made as early as next month and government officials are convinced the Kremlin will demand, in return, the extradition of Boris Berezovsky, the Russian millionaire oligarch who was granted asylum in the UK.
Mr Lugovoi, 41, a former bodyguard with the KGB, was one of several people interviewed by detectives from Scotland Yard's counter-terrorism command in Moscow last month. The Yard is declining to comment on the case and details of the alleged evidence against Mr Lugovoi remain unclear.
The businessman has repeatedly denied any involvement in the murder, and last night told the Guardian: 'I am not guilty. I have nothing to do with the killing of Litvinenko.' He added that he was unaware that Scotland Yard was planning to seek his extradition.
Mr Lugovoi met Mr Litvinenko at the Millennium Hotel in Grosvenor Square, London, on November 1. Mr Litvinenko fell ill shortly afterwards and died in University College Hospital, London, on November 23. In the intervening period, Mr Lugovoi appeared to leave a trail of radioactive polonium-210 at a number of offices and hotels around London, and traces of the substance were also found on board an aircraft in which he travelled.
Several other people have also tested positive for polonium-210, however, including eight members of staff and one other guest at the Millennium Hotel. Dimitri Kovtun, a Russian business associate of Mr Lugovoi who was present at the hotel meeting, was also contaminated.
On his return to Moscow, Mr Lugovoi called a televised press conference to protest his innocence, and pointed out that traces of polonium-210 had been found on his wife and children. 'To think that I would handle the stuff and put them at risk is ludicrous,' he said. 'Someone is trying to set me up. But I can't understand who. Or why.'Associates of the dead man have repeatedly accused President Vladimir Putin's government of being behind his murder, a claim the Kremlin rejects. While it is known that detectives believe they have uncovered evidence pointing to Mr Lugovoi's involvement, it is not clear whether they have established a motive for the murder.
Any attempt to extradite Mr Lugovoi could founder on the Russian constitution, which offers citizens protection against enforced removal from the country. However, senior British government officials have told the Guardian that officials in Moscow have already indicated their willingness to strike a deal which would see the suspect being handed over in return for Mr Berezovsky's extradition. Mr Berezovsky amassed his estimated 800m fortune during Russia's rush to privatisation in the 1990s, and fled to the UK after falling out with President Putin six years ago. Mr Litvinenko followed him, claiming that he had been instructed to murder Mr Berezovsky.
The oligarch has already fought off one extradition attempt, after Moscow accused him of large-scale fraud. After that charge was dropped, the Kremlin accused him of plotting to overthrow the government by force.
He cannot be forced to return to Russia, however, as the UK courts have ruled that the charges against him are politically-motivated and that he could not expect to receive a fair trial.
Government officials say that they have difficulty trying to explain to the Russian authorities that the UK courts are entirely independent, and that Mr Berezovsky cannot be extradited once the courts have ruled against such a move. As a result, there is growing nervousness in Whitehall over the possibility of a diplomatic rift, and about the economic consequences.
British business is heavily involved in Russia, with direct investment of nearly 2bn and exports of close to 3bn in 2005.The Kremlin has frequently used punitive economic measures as a blunt diplomatic tool. It cut off the gas supply to Ukraine and Belarus in the midst of political disputes, raising anxiety within the EU over Europe's dependence on Moscow for energy supplies. Last month Shell was forced to sell its controlling share in the world's biggest oil and gas venture, Sakhalin 2, to the Russian energy giant Gazprom. BP has also come under pressure to give up some of its share in a UK-Russian oil company, TNK-BP. It has been targeted by the state licensing agency, Rosnedra, which is threatening to strip it of its permit for a string of alleged infringements.
Meanwhile, the Health Protection Agency reported yesterday that a total of 129 people appear to have been exposed to polonium-210, and that 13 of them were at a small risk of long-term illness. Traces of radiation have been found at 20 locations in London, and several remain sealed off. Main playersAlexander Litvinenko
A former officer of the KGB and its successor, the FSB, Litvinenko fled to Britain in 2001, claiming he had been ordered to murder the Russian oligarch Boris Berezovsky. He then accused his former superiors of organising a bombing campaign to trigger war in Chechnya. Died of radioactive poisoning, aged 44, on November 23.
Andrei Lugovoi
A former bodyguard with the KGB, and now a successful Moscow businessman whose company, Pershin, controls a security consultancy and a soft drinks manufacturer and employs around 500 people. Mr Lugovoi, 41, met Litvinenko at the Millennium Hotel in London on November 1, hours before the ex-spy fell ill, but denies any role in the murder.
Dimitri Kovtun
An old friend of Mr Lugovoi from their days in the KGB, he is now a Moscow-based businessman and was at the meeting at the Millennium Hotel. Kovtun, 42, was contaminated with polonium-210 and traces have also been found in Hamburg, where he had visited his ex-wife. He too denies any involvement.
Mario Scaramella
An Italian self-styled security consultant who claims to have met Litvinenko on the day the Russian was poisoned, to warn of a plot against his life. He too appeared to have been poisoned, but that was later discovered to have been the result of a testing error. On his return to Rome, Scaramella, 36, was arrested on suspicion of gun-running and violating state secrets.
Boris Berezovsky
Russian billionaire created his empire during Russia's privatisation drive and fled to the UK after falling out with Vladimir Putin six years ago.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1999204,00.html |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 31-01-2007 15:26 Post subject: |
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Litvinenko photo used in Russian target practice
MOSCOW---- The head of a center that trains security personnel and held a competition for Russian special forces confirmed Tuesday that it has used shooting targets showing the photo of a former agent who was fatally poisoned in London last year.
continues
http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/235686,litvinenko013007.article |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 31-01-2007 15:27 Post subject: |
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Police hand over Litvinenko file
Scotland Yard has handed a file on the investigation into the death of the former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko to the Crown Prosecution Service.
The 43-year-old, a fierce critic of the Kremlin, died in hospital in London in November last year. His body contained the radioactive substance polonium-210.
Police have said they cannot reveal the contents of the file.
Prosecutors will now consider whether there is sufficient evidence to charge anyone over Mr Litvinenko's death.
Secret agents
Mr Litvinenko is reported to have fallen out with the Russian leader Vladimir Putin in the late 1990s.
At the end of last year, Scotland Yard officers travelled to Russia to question witnesses in the case.
Mr Litvinenko, a former Federal Security Service (FSB) officer, met three other former Russian secret agents just before he fell ill in London - Dmitry Kovtun, Andrei Lugovoi and Vyacheslav Sokolenko. They have denied any involvement in his poisoning.
His friends have accused the Kremlin of ordering his assassination in response to his criticism of President Vladimir Putin. The Russian government has rejected the claims.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6317129.stm
will it matter?
Russia will not extradite Lugovoy -Ifax
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia would not extradite Andrei Lugovoy if Britain asked for him to be handed over to stand trial for poisoning ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko, a source in the prosecutor-general's office told Interfax news agency on Friday.
continues
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=138022007 |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 07-02-2007 10:58 Post subject: |
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RUSSIAN SECURITY SERVICE `BEHIND LITVINENKO MURDER'
By Neville Dean, PA Crime Correspondent
A Russian historian who co-authored a book with poisoned former spy Alexander Litvinenko has told British detectives that the Russian security service was behind his murder.
Yuri Felshtinsky, who has defied the security advice of the FBI to travel to London from his adopted home in the United States, met Scotland Yard officers for the first time yesterday afternoon.
Despite death threats and the fact that several other people connected to his book are now dead, Mr Felshtinsky decided to return to the city where Mr Litvinenko was poisoned to give his statement to police.
He spent several hours with the Yard's investigating team yesterday, discussing ``everything you could imagine'' about the Litvinenko case and his own encounter in London with one of the alleged suspects.
Mr Felshtinsky revealed today that he met Russian businessman Andrei Lugovoi less than three weeks before the day Mr Litvinenko was allegedly poisoned at a Mayfair hotel.
He claims there is ``no doubt'' that the Russian security service, the FSB - a successor to the KGB - orchestrated Mr Litvinenko's death as revenge for his perceived betrayal of the organisation.
It comes after another Russian exile, billionaire Boris Berezovsky, disclosed that, on his deathbed, Mr Litvinenko had claimed Mr Lugovoi, an ex-KGB officer, was responsible.
Mr Berezovsky told the BBC's Newsnight programme last night that his friend had told him: ``I think Lugovoi is involved in my poison.'' Mr Lugovoi has vehemently denied any involvement in Mr Litvinenko's death.
Mr Felshtinsky revealed today that he and Mr Lugovoi had a ``chance'' encounter in Piccadilly in October last year, less than three weeks before the latter met Mr Litvinenko at the Millennium Hotel in Grosvenor Square.
It was there, on November 1, that Mr Litvinenko, a former FSB officer, was allegedly poisoned by the radioactive substance polonium 210 in a cup of tea.
Mr Felshtinsky said he had known Mr Lugovoi since the days when he was responsible for Mr Berezovsky's security in Moscow.
The now-exiled billionaire used to be a major shareholder in Russia's main television channel, for which Mr Lugovoi used to handle security.
``We stopped and talked for six or seven minutes,'' Mr Felshtinsky said of his encounter with Mr Lugovoi on October 12 last year.
``It was a chance meeting in the street.
``We discussed no serious issues at all, it was small talk. The FBI was interested to know whether this meeting was not by chance, that Lugovoi knew that I was coming to London.
``I do not know. I do not have any answer to this question.'' It was the FBI who advised Mr Felshtinsky not to travel to London last month for the relaunch of his and Mr Litvinenko's controversial book, Blowing Up Russia, on the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings and the rise of President Vladimir Putin.
It claims the Russian security service, the FSB, secretly carried out the bombings to rally support for a new war in Chechnya and to convince the Russian people to elect the FSB's own candidate for the presidency, Mr Putin.
Mr Felshtinsky admits that if Mr Litvinenko had not been involved in the book, he would probably still be alive.
But he is in Britain and is determined to help the police with their investigation into his friend's death.
``I hope that the information I submitted to them is useful,'' he said.
``We had a conversation which continued for several hours, we covered everything you could imagine - who I thought was behind the murder, what would be the main reason for it.'' Mr Felshtinsky believes there is little doubt about where the order for Mr Litvinenko's assassination came from.
``If this operation was conducted by the central office of the FSB, and I think that is exactly how this was done, there were a lot of people involved,'' he said.
``There were probably a lot of people involved in Russia in helping this operation - but as in any political murder, we will never know everything.
``There is a saying that there are no former members of the FSB. Once you have started to serve for this organisation, you are an FSB officer for ever. That, unfortunately, happens to be a dark truth about this situation.
``Once you are a member, you stay a member for ever and if they give you an order, you follow the order.'' Mr Felshtinsky professes not to worry unduly for his own security. Certainly, as he sips a coffee in a central London hotel, he does not wear the look of a man in fear of his life.
His security is more of a concern to his family, he says.
But he says that while Vladimir Putin's regime is in charge in Russia, no one who speaks out against it is ever completely safe.
``For the first time we now have a system where the security service is ruling the country,'' he said.
``There is no reason for this organisation to exist, unless it is as a tool to fight democracy against democracy.
``That is why this organisation was created, to fight against democracy on behalf of the Communist Party both inside and outside of the Soviet Union. The same people are doing the same job, only now they are in charge of Russia.'' Mr Felshtinsky last spoke to Mr Litvinenko on November 8 last year when he had already fallen ill and was in hospital. At the time, the prognosis was good and the former spy believed he would live.
``I did not know then that would be our last conversation,'' he said.
``Alexander was sure that he had survived an assassination attempt that they tried to poison him. Marina, his wife, was very optimistic. We all thought that in a couple of days he would be back in his house.'' At that time nobody knew what the poison was, although they suspected it might be the heavy metal thallium.
It would be another 10 days before the radiation would really start to take its horrific toll.
``Alexander thought a British passport was going to be the best security for him - but he was killed only a couple of weeks after he received it,'' Mr Felshtinsky said. ``He was a British citizen when he was killed.
``There were several people who were killed in connection with the book. If Alexander had not been involved in this research, I think he would be alive now.
``Now, after Alexander has been killed, it has proved what was written is exactly what is going on in Russia.'' ends |
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crunchy5 Great Old One Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Total posts: 1951 Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 07-02-2007 11:13 Post subject: |
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| Never trust a man who's name looks so mutch like Feltchstinky he can only be taking the piss, or something. |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 07-02-2007 11:35 Post subject: |
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| crunchy5 wrote: | | Never trust a man who's name looks so mutch like Feltchstinky he can only be taking the piss, or something. |
i take it you won't be voting for Ed Balls if he stands for Pm then? |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 07-02-2007 14:10 Post subject: |
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Honestly, what a lot of tin foil hat wearing Conspiracy Theorists.
It should be obvious to everyone that Litvinenko and his business associate simply ate some contaminated seafood, which didn't agree with the business associate, so he probably left it to the side of his plate, touching it with his fingers, or accidentally dropped it on the floor, stepping in it and tramping it throughout central London, much to everyone's annoyance. Simply a million to one accident and a series of unfortunate events.
If this had happened to a Westerner, no one would have noticed.  |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 07-02-2007 14:42 Post subject: |
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| Pietro_Mercurios wrote: | Honestly, what a lot of tin foil hat wearing Conspiracy Theorists.
It should be obvious to everyone that Litvinenko and his business associate simply ate some contaminated seafood, which didn't agree with the business associate, so he probably left it to the side of his plate, touching it with his fingers, or accidentally dropped it on the floor, stepping in it and tramping it throughout central London, much to everyone's annoyance. Simply a million to one accident and a series of unfortunate events.
If this had happened to a Westerner, no one would have noticed.  |
quite. the tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists should then have their arguments torn apart by the more rational commentators. i'm sure once those commentators put forward some plausible theories themselves then we'll see how ridiculous and formed through prejudice the rantings of the CT's really are. this is usually the pattern. |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 07-02-2007 23:12 Post subject: |
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| ted_bloody_maul wrote: | ...
quite. the tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists should then have their arguments torn apart by the more rational commentators. i'm sure once those commentators put forward some plausible theories themselves then we'll see how ridiculous and formed through prejudice the rantings of the CT's really are. this is usually the pattern. |
Unfortunately, most of the 'plausible theories' being put forward and general debunking being done, by 'the more rational commentators', are only available in Russian and my browser doesn't do Cyrillic. |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 08-02-2007 10:23 Post subject: |
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| Pietro_Mercurios wrote: |
Unfortunately, most of the 'plausible theories' being put forward and general debunking being done, by 'the more rational commentators', are only available in Russian and my browser doesn't do Cyrillic. |
so how do you know the theories are plausible if you don't have access to them? |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 08-02-2007 13:16 Post subject: |
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| ted_bloody_maul wrote: | ...
so how do you know the theories are plausible if you don't have access to them? |
Because they're 'official'.  |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 08-02-2007 13:41 Post subject: |
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| Pietro_Mercurios wrote: | | ted_bloody_maul wrote: | ...
so how do you know the theories are plausible if you don't have access to them? |
Because they're 'official'.  |
well if by 'official' you mean better researched than and capable of disproving the wild theories which stand in opposition to them then i'd guess they would be valid. still, it would be nice to hear them rather than the politically/psychologically driven accusations of conspiracy theorists who seem incapable of producing evidence to the contrary. |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 08-02-2007 14:50 Post subject: |
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| ted_bloody_maul wrote: | | ... still, it would be nice to hear them rather than the politically/psychologically driven accusations of conspiracy theorists who seem incapable of producing evidence to the contrary. |
I quite agree.
Your wish is my command. BBC Radio4, tinfoil hat wearing Conspiracy Theorists have a go at the Russian security and health services and accuse them of a series of conspiracies, involving murders, assassinations and cover-ups. All very anti-Russian and the Russian authorities refute them:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/6324241.stm
Listen Again:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/fileon4 |
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ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
Posted: 08-02-2007 15:36 Post subject: |
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| Pietro_Mercurios wrote: | | ted_bloody_maul wrote: | | ... still, it would be nice to hear them rather than the politically/psychologically driven accusations of conspiracy theorists who seem incapable of producing evidence to the contrary. |
I quite agree.
Your wish is my command. BBC Radio4, tinfoil hat wearing Conspiracy Theorists have a go at the Russian security and health services and accuse them of a series of conspiracies, involving murders, assassinations and cover-ups. All very anti-Russian and the Russian authorities refute them:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/file_on_4/6324241.stm
Listen Again:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/fileon4 |
interesting, an article which appeared a couple of days ago and was ignored by posters on this board. i can only guess they didn't bother posting since it offered little more than allusion in the case of litvinenko.
up til that point presumably you were duped like everyone else, i'm assuming.just out of curiousity, as a reformed hat wearer, who are the tin foil hat wearers that you referred to earlier in the thread and what is the nature of the charge that they foolishly believe? |
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