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Quake42 Warrior Princess
Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5212 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
 Posted: 06-08-2007 23:25 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Agreed, but as far as dogs go, there are none that aren't safe if well trained. |
I disagree. Clearly some breeds are bred for aggression. Almost all the cases I can remember of children being savaged by dogs in recent have involved (a) Rottweilers or (b) Bull terriers of either the Staffordshire or Pit variety. It isn't just down to size either - labradors, dalmations, St Bernards and other large breeds do not seem to snap in the same way. |
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| coldelephant |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 12:42 Post subject: |
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I would agree some dogs are bred for aggression - but the dogs you mention are alleged to be nice dogs, good with kids - up until you abuse the dogs and then they snap.
Also - I have been told that bloodhounds used for fox hunting cannot be adopted as pets, they were bred and trained to hunt down and rip apart foxes and would not be suitable as a domestic family pet.
Training and or abuse can change an animal just as it can change a human.
As 'Bricktop' said in the movie 'Snatch' (when he was poking at a caged dog with a stick);
| Quote: | | Poke him with a stick, you watch his bollocks grow. |
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| wembley8 Home of Legends Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Total posts: 2001 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 18:02 Post subject: |
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| Quake42 wrote: | | Quote: | | Agreed, but as far as dogs go, there are none that aren't safe if well trained. |
I disagree. Clearly some breeds are bred for aggression. Almost all the cases I can remember of children being savaged by dogs in recent have involved (a) Rottweilers or (b) Bull terriers of either the Staffordshire or Pit variety. It isn't just down to size either - labradors, dalmations, St Bernards and other large breeds do not seem to snap in the same way. |
IIRC, if you look at the figures, St Bernards are one the the nasty ones...
(EDIT - oh yeah, from this very thread-
Numbers registered No. of Fatal Attacks Breed Percentage
240,000 12 Chow Chow .705%8
00,000 67 German Shepherds .008375%
960,000 70 Rottweiler . 0729%
128,000 18 Great Dane .01416 %
114,000 14 Doberman .012288%
72,000 10 St. Bernard .0139%
5,000,000 60 American Pit Bull .0012% "
- so they're ten times worse than pit bulls...)
But in fact even the ones supposedly bred for aggression are fine if properly socialised. The problem is that many of them aren't, especially in areas like this one (South London) where dogs are encourage to snarl and snap by their thickheaded owners.
Last edited by wembley8 on 07-08-2007 18:09; edited 1 time in total |
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| wembley8 Home of Legends Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Total posts: 2001 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 18:06 Post subject: |
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| coldelephant wrote: | | Also - I have been told that bloodhounds used for fox hunting cannot be adopted as pets, they were bred and trained to hunt down and rip apart foxes and would not be suitable as a domestic family pet. |
Many dogs are unsuitable as pets, but it's all in the upbringing and socialisation (or lack of it) rather than the breeding. Foxhounds and bloodhounds are often pets rather than working dogs.
However, 'you cant keep one as a pet' is often used as an excuse for destroying inconvenient old animals. Racing greyhounds are not ideal pets and take a long time to get used to human company, but I know people who have successfully adopted them. |
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| Quake42 Warrior Princess
Great Old One Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Total posts: 5212 Location: Over Silbury Hill, through the Solar field Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 19:43 Post subject: |
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Interesting figures, and I admit I was wrong on the St Bernard. I am astonished that the Chow could be responsible for fatal attacks at all! How odd.
| Quote: | | Racing greyhounds are not ideal pets and take a long time to get used to human company, but I know people who have successfully adopted them. |
I volunteered with abandoned racing greyhounds some years ago and all of the ones I met were charming, gentle creatures who seemed to want nothing more than to curl up in front of the fire and sleep.
That isn't my experience with bull terriers, even the supposedly more reliable Staffies. I don't think I have met one that I trusted and I just don't think that they are safe to be house pets. |
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| hedgewizard1 Work in progress
Great Old One Joined: 05 Oct 2003 Total posts: 1129 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 21:54 Post subject: |
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| Quake42 wrote: | | Clearly some breeds are bred for aggression. |
Mostly, the issue is that some dogs are trained to be aggressive towards humans, not that any given breed is intrinsically aggressive. The stats on deaths ignore the fact that the breeds that bite most often are smaller ones, and therefore less likely to do major damage. In my experience, Chihuahuas are probably the most inclined to bite, followed Dachshunds. After that, it's a toss up between the smaller smooth coated terriers (Toy Fox Terriers, Manchesters, etc). |
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| coldelephant |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 22:11 Post subject: |
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| wembley8 wrote: | | coldelephant wrote: | | Also - I have been told that bloodhounds used for fox hunting cannot be adopted as pets, they were bred and trained to hunt down and rip apart foxes and would not be suitable as a domestic family pet. |
Many dogs are unsuitable as pets, but it's all in the upbringing and socialisation (or lack of it) rather than the breeding. Foxhounds and bloodhounds are often pets rather than working dogs.
However, 'you cant keep one as a pet' is often used as an excuse for destroying inconvenient old animals. Racing greyhounds are not ideal pets and take a long time to get used to human company, but I know people who have successfully adopted them. |
Would a greyhound eat your children? |
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| hedgewizard1 Work in progress
Great Old One Joined: 05 Oct 2003 Total posts: 1129 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 23:23 Post subject: |
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| Greyhounds tend to be very mellow creatures. While some need socialization, they make excellent pets. We're very happy with our former racer. |
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| mindalai spinster of this parish
Great Old One Joined: 27 Aug 2005 Total posts: 1739 Location: on the shelf Age: 37 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 23:32 Post subject: |
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| Quake42 wrote: | | That isn't my experience with bull terriers, even the supposedly more reliable Staffies. I don't think I have met one that I trusted and I just don't think that they are safe to be house pets. |
Just personal experience but I have never ever met a staffie that wasn't gentle and friendly. I've never seen one get into a fight and all the ones I've ever met have been really over-the-top soppy. My own dog is (most likely) a little bit staffie and he's the least aggressive dog you could imagine. He ran away from a bichon frise (spelling?) this afternoon.
I just don't think you can generalise by breed. Not to say that certain characteristics aren't bred into them but it's not a reliable indicator of temperament. |
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| ted_bloody_maul Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2003 Total posts: 4877 Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 07-08-2007 23:47 Post subject: |
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| mindalai wrote: | Just personal experience but I have never ever met a staffie that wasn't gentle and friendly. I've never seen one get into a fight and all the ones I've ever met have been really over-the-top soppy. My own dog is (most likely) a little bit staffie and he's the least aggressive dog you could imagine. He ran away from a bichon frise (spelling?) this afternoon.
I just don't think you can generalise by breed. Not to say that certain characteristics aren't bred into them but it's not a reliable indicator of temperament. |
My own family's dog is part staffie and is one of the most gentle and timid creatures you could ever find (although she's brave if anyone or any other dog was aggressive to any member of my family). My brother specifically chose her from the dog home because she was the saddest looking dog in the place and was lying forlornly in the corner whilst other dogs were jumping against the fence. I'm sure certain dogs are more predisposed towards certain behaviours but ultimately it's the owners which are the biggest influence.
I think it's one of the saddest images of today's Britain that just about every second dog you'll see now is a pit bull. Pets for appearance and agression - what's gone wrong? |
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| hedgewizard1 Work in progress
Great Old One Joined: 05 Oct 2003 Total posts: 1129 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 08-08-2007 01:29 Post subject: |
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Pits and other fighting dogs were bred for aggression towards other dogs, not people. Part of the fighting "ritual" involves strangers handling the dogs, and any dog that was snappish with people wouldn't last long. My experiences with fighting dogs is that they're very sweet and eager to please. Unless, of course, they are confronted by another dog. The dogs I've dealt with have been actual fighters, confiscated by animal control.
I can't say that I would trust any dog alone with a child. The possibility that the child would accidentally provoke an attack is too great. Not that a dog cannot differentiate between a child and a dog; they certainly can. But the mildest animal can bite if provoked. |
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| gncxx King-Size Canary
Great Old One Joined: 25 Aug 2001 Total posts: 13303 Location: Eh? Gender: Male |
| Posted: 28-02-2008 19:26 Post subject: |
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Full story (worrying reading):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7264620.stm
| Quote: | Hospitals see rise in dog bites
By Branwen Jeffreys
Health correspondent, BBC News
The number of people treated for dog bites at hospitals in England has risen sharply, according to figures obtained by the Liberal Democrats.
NHS statistics show the number attending A&E after a dog attack has risen by more than 40% in the last four years to nearly 3,800 a year.
The figures follow a series of widely publicised attacks on children.
Young children and teenagers are the most likely groups to be treated at hospital after a dog bite.
The hospital admission statistics also reveal a strong regional variation.
During the four-year period the number of patients under 18 treated for dog bites in London more than doubled, and in the West Midlands it rose by 80%.
In contrast, the number of under-18s injured by dogs in the East Midlands rose by just 2% over the same period.
Norman Lamb, Liberal Democrat health spokesman, called for more to be done to make people aware of the risks of irresponsible dog ownership.
The Liberal Democrats want to see stricter legal duties laid on dog owners, and control orders to impose conditions on ownership - or in severe cases disqualify irresponsible owners.
Of the attack figures Mr Lamb added: "These are dramatic increases. I think in some communities these dogs have become a badge of honour, a fashion accessory in a way, and I think that's very disturbing..." |
I'm sure most dogs are fine, but there's always the danger they might attack, especially when you get irresponsible idiots using their dogs to intimidate people. Unfortunately it's difficult to know if a dog will attack until it actually does so, though bad owners are easier to spot. |
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| rev_dino Great Old One Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Total posts: 248 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 39 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 29-02-2008 18:56 Post subject: |
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| ted_bloody_maul wrote: |
My own family's dog is part staffie and is one of the most gentle and timid creatures you could ever find (although she's brave if anyone or any other dog was aggressive to any member of my family). My brother specifically chose her from the dog home because she was the saddest looking dog in the place and was lying forlornly in the corner whilst other dogs were jumping against the fence. I'm sure certain dogs are more predisposed towards certain behaviours but ultimately it's the owners which are the biggest influence.
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Aren't Staffies one of only 2 breeds recommended by the UKC for families with kids?
I was considering one recently, then I heard that, round here, if you walk into the dog park with one everyone assumes it's a Pitbull and leaves... sigh. Thinking about a Boxer now though.
I don't know if this is known in the UK, but here in the US in many States & Counties, Pitbulls are always killed when they end up in a shelter. However, the shelter that I work at has recently started a Pitbull adoption program (after rigorous behavioral testing - and we don't send them to homes with kids or other dogs) and have so far successfully adopted 3 out! |
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| escargot1 Joined: 24 Aug 2001 Total posts: 17709 Location: Farkham Hall Age: 3 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 29-02-2008 19:24 Post subject: |
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My 'big' dog (the other being a Jack Russell cross) is a boxer/Staffie cross. He's a very soft mutt but I have no doubt that he'd defend me to the death. He barks or growls on command and appears totally fearsome when necessary.  |
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| nch20031 Grey Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Total posts: 13 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 03-04-2008 16:50 Post subject: |
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| Some dogs can just be annoyed into getting aggresive. We had a border collie that would put up with my young nephew for a while but after about 30 minutes of being prodded, having its ears and tail pulled it would hide behind the sofa and would show signs of aggression if my nephew tried to follow. Also some dogs can just get over excited when your playing with them. I have a scar on my forearm from one of our dogs from when it was trying to get it's ball from out of my hand. The dog obviously didn't mean to hurt me it just got carried away and caught me with its claw when it was pawing at my hand. When small children are mauled by dogs the papers and news reports never tell you what the child was upto before being attacked. |
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