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Posted: 01-04-2002 14:47 Post subject: Dowsing

After reading some recent postings discussing the merits of dowsing, I posted a message urging the correspondents to visit James Randi's "Million Dollar Challenge" site http://www.randi.org/research/
in order to relieve him of a million dollars while, at the same time, scientifically proving the veracity of their claims.

So far, no one has indicated their willingness to take up the challenge.

I long for some hard, scientific proof that dowsing works, rather than word of mouth, FOAF, unverifiable stories and mutual back-slapping that seems to abound amongst fellow dowsers.

Why won't anyone take up Randi's challenge? or can someone provide me with some links to serious scientific studies that have proved beyond doubt, that dowsing works?

Posted: 01-04-2002 16:15 Post subject:

Au contraire.

Check out the "Magnetism, Leys and Stone Circles" thread in "New Science".

Let's await developments, shall we?

Posted: 01-04-2002 18:07 Post subject:

Thank you Stu, super stuff!

I hope your letter gets things moving, although, as it's Randi's money you may find it difficult to dictate terms to him.

I suppose that if both parties hit rates are the flat average dictated by chance, you will concede defeat?

Posted: 01-04-2002 18:13 Post subject:

I use to try out dowsing but I stopped when I realised that I was effecting the results to much subconciously ...or perhaps thats how it works? Your subconcious connecting with your concious?

Actually, my interest was rekindled when we watched a History video in School where some archeologists were using dowsing to find ancient artifacts. I couldn't beleive my eyes when I saw it but oddly no-one else in the class, including the teacher, noted the significance of being taught a Fortean skill in class.

Posted: 01-04-2002 18:15 Post subject:

Just to keep the debate lively, please take the time to read this excellent sceptical rebuttal of dowsing: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~rasmus/skepticism/dowsing.html

Posted: 02-04-2002 16:19 Post subject:

I once bought a 'Teach yourself dousing' kit from a book shop in Wakefield. It was reduced to a fiver and contained 2 metal dousing rods, a book, and lots of little wooden pegs which you have to scatter around the house and then look for with the rods.

It was great but I did get the same impression as Adam Rang, in that I felt I was cheating in some way. The book actually said that to begin with it was ok to 'manipulate' the rods in order to get the correct results as this would teach your sub conscious what was expected of it..... or something like that.

Posted: 07-04-2002 02:40 Post subject: I've done dowsing for fun

I've tried dowsing. Saw a show on TV some years back and decided it would be fun to try. My husband took a coin and hid in the backyard while I was in the house not looking. I also tried to find the water pipes in the backyard.

It worked pretty darn well. It could very well be the subconscious doing it but it befuddles me about the coin thing because I didn't know where the coin was and my family members didn't give me any clues as to where it was and I found it each time (three times).

As for the pipes you can pretty much tell where they would be but I was trying to figure out how the dowsing rods worked.

I used metal clothes hangers bent in an elongated "L" shape and held them loosely in my hands. They crossed when I was over the coin or the pipes and when I went away from them they went apart.

Just talking about it makes me want to try it again. Maybe this time I'll figure it out. *grin*

Posted: 07-04-2002 08:25 Post subject: Randi challenge update

The story so far....

Our hero, the chiselled Fortean Stu Neville, has challenged squat villain and skeptic "The Amazing Randi" to a test of the veracity of dowsing by means of a test, the critaeria of which are listed in an E-mail copied on the thread "Magnetism, stone circles and leys" in the New Science forum. This E-mail was sent a week ago; our hero awaits the Nemesis's response: wil there be a Final Conflict?? Now read on...

I've heard sod all.

Tune in to the next gripping episode, same time, same place! Be there, or be somewhere else!!

Posted: 07-04-2002 10:51 Post subject:

I thought it was generally accepted that dowsing works,water companies use it , and pipelaying companies ( I have read this somewhere ) . You can find underground pipes by dowsing . Interesting thing , my mother can't dowse at all but if I stand behind her and hold her elbows she can!

Posted: 07-04-2002 13:17 Post subject:

Patience is a virtue Stu Smile

Perhaps Mr Randi is busy exposing a misguided person or a charlatan somewhere else. There are a lot of them about you know... Psychout

Posted: 07-04-2002 13:25 Post subject:

Hi Marion,

Perhaps the problem with dowsing IS that many people "think" it works.

It appears to me that science supports the sceptical view.

Please check the web on dowsing - both pro and anti, and judge for yourself. My web journey left me with the impression that the pro side is full of friend of a friend (FOAF) tales, and mostly unsupported by links to learned papers.

Proof.....I must have PROOF Eek Eek

Happy hunting.

Posted: 07-04-2002 13:39 Post subject:

Arthur, why not try it for yourself? Surely personal experience is more important and rewarding than reading other's opinions of it. Problem is, it seems you have already made up your mind...

There seems to be quite a few comments from people who have tried it that they felt they were 'cheating' or that 'it must have been my subconscious' like that makes it somehow wrong or invalid! Surely if it get's the desired results then that's all that matters.

Posted: 07-04-2002 21:32 Post subject:

At the uncon I tried some dowsing experiments. I got some rods and had to walk past several wires, two had electricity flowing through, one was clearly marked as having it the other was not. As I walked accross my rods crossed twice, once at the wire clearly marked and another time at a different wire. I was quite aware that in both instances it was me subconsiously crossing the wire and its worth noting that at the same time I was consentrating on the word 'electricity'. They said they would post all the results on the web soon so I'll have to wait to find out if I was correct or not.

August, I stopped doing dowsing becuase I found it to easy to simply think of a direction for the pendulem to swing and before my eyes it would do that without me even conciously swinging it in that direction. I do believe that the succes experienced during dowsing is a result of the subconcious mind moving the pendulem/rod to show you where the electricity/water etc. is.

This raises its own questions however, for a start it implies that our sunconsious mind has the ability to know where the target is. I can't explain that, although I have read up about a 'sub space mind' that we supposedly all posses which is all knowing of the physical.

Posted: 07-04-2002 22:22 Post subject:

Why did that stop you from dowsing though? I know the effect you mean - 'thinking' a pendulum to move in a certain way - but did it prevent you from getting the results you required or did you simply feel that you would be 'interfering' with those results if you could decide which way the pendulum would move?

Posted: 07-04-2002 22:45 Post subject:

Well, I felt that when I was searching it was far to easy for me to think conciously 'the water is here' and the pendulem would then start indicating it as well.

I might start it again as I'm sure I could get great results if I train my mind to have more patience when I do it and to just consentrate on the question 'Is it here?'.