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Dowsing
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ArthurASCIIOffline
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PostPosted: 01-09-2004 05:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gyrtrash wrote:

We went into his garden and I walked through it looking for water courses and the wires crossed every time I walked over a certain bit of the garden. Turns out that's where the drain is.


Was there any water flowing through the drain at the time ?

(drains are built on a slope, so are normally empty of water until it is introduced by a flush or other means).
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stunevilleOffline
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PostPosted: 01-09-2004 08:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emperor wrote:

Stu: Did you ever hear back from Randi on your dowsing challenge?:

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2315

Emps
Not a word. I e-mailed them again a couple of months later, but never received a reply to that, either.

At least when we had an incursion from Randistan on here we had the good grace to actually answer them Smile.
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jonnash4Offline
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PostPosted: 11-09-2004 19:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know how much this will help but....
....last week i was 'training' (sort of) for a guiding job from salisbury to stonehenge. While at stonehenge the guide i was following took out some dowsing rods and across the axis of stonehenge they came together. She then re demonstarted with her eyes shut and again at the same point they crossed. I was a little sceptical despite my interest in all fortean, tried it and it worked...thought it might be my subconcious, tried again (determined that it wouldnt work) and they once more crossed. The other thing is that the wind as blowing moderately in the opposite direction to the one the rods moved in. bizzare. 2 or 3 other people that day who she let have a go were also successful, including a quite sceptical person......

more things in heaven and earth and all that.........
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gyrtrashOffline
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PostPosted: 11-09-2004 21:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthur ASCII wrote:

Was there any water flowing through the drain at the time ?

(drains are built on a slope, so are normally empty of water until it is introduced by a flush or other means).


Good point!
I'll ask him next time I see him!

(The times I've looked in drains, there's sometimes a bit of standing water.)


Out of interest (to me anyway!), I dowsed the area where I'm building a stone circle in a customers garden. Every time I entered the marked-out perimeter, the wires crossed. That happened to a colleague too who was trying it for the first time.
It also happened in a few other parts of the garden, there are land-drains there.

Dunno why they crossed each time the circle perimeter was crossed though... it's not even built yet confused
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dreenessOffline
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PostPosted: 07-04-2005 15:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

an overview of dowsing research (circa 1982):
link


A few nagging questions that may prey on enquiring minds:

If someone has been taking water from a dowsed well, and it can be established that dowsing is unscientific, should that person be required to put the water back?

A "million dollar prize", is that a million in the generally accepted sense of "one thousand multiplied by one thousand"?

Could using a search engine be considered a form of "cyber dowsing"?
For example, if someone was to Google for the phrase

"Randi should have paid the $1000, but he never did"

would that be considered a form of dowsing, and would the results of such dowsing be potentially deleterious to dialectic rationalism, if not flagrantly counterrevolutionary and downright impertinent?
confused
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ArthurASCIIOffline
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PostPosted: 08-04-2005 05:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If someone has been taking water from a dowsed well, and it can be established that dowsing is unscientific, should that person be required to put the water back?


Calm down......

No-one says that dowsing is unscientific. Dowsers repeatedly fail to gain more than a statictically average amount of success in scientifically controlled tests. That doesn't necessarily mean that dowsing doesn't work per se.

Quote:
A "million dollar prize", is that a million in the generally accepted sense of "one thousand multiplied by one thousand"?

It's a million dollars as generally accepted by millions of americans (how ever many that is).


Quote:
Could using a search engine be considered a form of "cyber dowsing"?


Only by using the most twisted logic.
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KeyserXSozeOffline
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PostPosted: 27-06-2005 19:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Source
Quote:
Can you really find water with a forked stick?

BY JEFF ELDER

Q: Can you really find water using a forked stick? - (KRT) - Tim Manis

A: Tim, this is called dowsing, and people have been doing it for thousands of years. Skeptics say it has always been phony.

Dowsers use all kinds of equipment to search for all kinds of things. Richard Crutchfield is president of the Appalachian Chapter of the American Society of Dowsers, based in Asheville, N.C. He uses an L-shaped rod of bent wire and says he finds what he's seeking - often water - 80 percent of the time. He calls it "a life calling" and "great fun."

Dowsers often say the stick or rod or pendulum they use mysteriously moves to indicate the location of underground water or another sought-after object.

Scientists and skeptics say "horsefeathers!" - or use another barnyard-related term to indicate disbelief.

The James Randi Educational Foundation, a Florida not-for-profit organization that scrutinizes supernatural claims, identifies dowsing as one of the world's most common - and bogus - "mystical" practices.

Randi, who offers $1 million to anyone who can demonstrate supernatural powers in a controlled scientific test, writes this on his Web site:

"The dowser is unknowingly moving the device of choice, exerting a small shaking, tilt or pressure to it, enough to disturb its state of balance. This has been shown any number of times to be true, but the demonstration has meant nothing to the dowsers, who will persist in their delusion no matter how many times it is shown to them that dowsing DOES NOT WORK."

Ray Hyman wrote "Water Witching U.S.A." (University Of Chicago Press, 2000) with Evon Z. Vogt. "No matter how many ways we find to poke a hole in their claims, they have ready-made ways to seal these holes and protect their belief," Hyman said in an interview with PBS.

Crutchfield's response?

"It's a psychic energy. You can't explain it through science."

Does dowsing work? Scientists and journalists are paid to be skeptical. What do you think?

---

© 2005, The Charlotte Observer (Charlotte, N.C.).

Visit The Charlotte Observer on the World Wide Web at http://www.charlotte.com

Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services
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BreakfastologistOffline
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PostPosted: 29-06-2005 12:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthur ASCII wrote:

Quote:
Could using a search engine be considered a form of "cyber dowsing"?

Only by using the most twisted logic.


No, it could be quite rationally if you held a forked hazel twig above the keyboard and let it's twitching press the keys to create your search terms...
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MrRINGOffline
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PostPosted: 02-07-2005 20:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting book on Dowsing, looks like it draws together many different strands of the story. It's called The Divining Hand:: The 500 year-old Mystery of Dowsing by Christopher Bird:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0924608161/qid=1120333845/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-8106268-0579003
And a review:
Quote:
An informative history of the oft misunderstood dowsing art., September 2, 1999
Reviewer: A reader

I first read this book in 1992, and I have referred to it so many times since that I now know it's content backwards. The late Christopher Bird took a documentary view of the whole subject of dowsing, from it's earliest history to the present day, in the fields of water divining, mineral and oil exploration, tunnel and cave location, missing objects, animals and people, geopathic stress, and medical diagnosis, including both physical and remote sensing.

As a Geologist, I found the book quite fascinating, and packed with useful information and guidelines for the would be dowser. Although one does have to cut through a lot of misconcieved mysticism and folklore, and religious and scientific taboo, to get to the core of this subject, the basics and the details of practical dowsing are all there in "The Divining Hand".

There is a long history of water divining in my family, but for many generations there have been no practising diviners. I was inspired by this book to explore the potential of divining in the modern context of the earth sciences, and I found it to be so effective and successful that in 1994 I started in business as a professional diviner or dowser.

Divining is a great asset in geological mapping and in the location and assessment of mineral, oil, and gas resources. For groundwater source location and assessment it can not be equalled even by the latest state-of-the-art geophysics.

I have developed a systematic exploration method called Geodivining, utilising both remote-sensory map-dowsing and field divining techniques, which is successful world-wide. I have found most of the claims made for divining in Christopher Bird's book to be verifiable, and the success of my own work adds a powerful testimony.

Geodivining is so much in demand by drilling contractors and clients in the UK, North America, Africa, Australia and New Zealand, that I and my trainee Geodiviners are hard pressed to keep up with the work.

Bird's book "The Divining Hand" changed my life for the better; and whilst it may leave some readers cold, for anyone with a genuine interest in learning more about the subject of dowsing, this book is an excellent place to start.


But a question - is dowsing supposed to find any water/oil/mineral, or just naturally occuring water/oil/mineral? It seems like it would be hard to test adequetly if it's only naturally occuring stuff, because people could study up on the land beforehand...
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kroboneOffline
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PostPosted: 03-07-2005 07:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is that if dowsing really worked they'd all have well-paid jobs for the oil & mining industries.
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rynner
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PostPosted: 03-07-2005 08:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krobone wrote:
All I can say is that if dowsing really worked they'd all have well-paid jobs for the oil & mining industries.

Many of them have: the (apparently anonymous) reviewer of the Divining Hand (see above) says:
Quote:
I have developed a systematic exploration method called Geodivining, utilising both remote-sensory map-dowsing and field divining techniques, which is successful world-wide. I have found most of the claims made for divining in Christopher Bird's book to be verifiable, and the success of my own work adds a powerful testimony.

Geodivining is so much in demand by drilling contractors and clients in the UK, North America, Africa, Australia and New Zealand, that I and my trainee Geodiviners are hard pressed to keep up with the work.
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MrRINGOffline
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PostPosted: 03-07-2005 14:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if this is the guy who wrote the review?

http://www.geodivining.com/
Quote:
This Web site is designed to be of interest to a broad range of visitors; and we hope all our visitors will find useful information of general, educational, technical, and scientific interest in these pages.

For private and business clients, for professionals in groundwater development, mineral exploration, and oil & gas exploration, and for all aid agencies, NGO's, and UN or government departments; there are easily accessible sector-specific pages that go straight to the brass tacks of how we can help you to discover and evaluate the groundwater and mineral resources you need to find.

We declare both commercial and altruistic interests, and we therefore do offer a free advice service within the practical limitations of our ability and resources, alongside our professional consultancy services. There's a wealth of links to related web sites where more diverse and detailed topics may be found, but if you can't find what you're looking for, please just ask.
We'll always try to help you find what you need.

Clients wishing to arrange a survey are invited to visit our easy "Request a Survey" page, and tell us what you'd like us to help you with; and visitors who want to ask a question or make a comment, are invited to visit our guest book. If you prefer, you can write, or e-mail us directly at the address given below.

We hope you will enjoy browsing these pages, let us know what you think of our new web site, and share your interest with your friends and colleagues.
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many_angled_oneOffline
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PostPosted: 06-07-2005 12:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought of dowsing as the same as the "aerial effect".
By that I mean you have a portable tv with a small aerial on top, you get a fuzzy picture and you try to touch it, as soon as you touch the metal the picture clears up, only to go fuzzy when you let go. Basically your body serves as an extension of the aerial enabling it to pick up more signals thus a better picture reception.

I always thought of dowsing the same way, using your body to "tune in" to certain signals via the rods.
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drbastardOffline
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PostPosted: 18-08-2005 12:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a go at dowsing with a pendulum a few years ago, following TC Lethbridge's book and scientific experiments on the subject. He had worked out 'rates' for certain substances by measuring the distance of string unravelled before the pendulum would start its characteristic circular swing.

Trying not to look at his chart of rates I set out with my own pendulum and carefully tried to test a variety of objects. I took at least the best of three for each and averaged the result.

I found that my rates (I took about 8 objects in the end) were surprisingly in good agreement with Lethbridge's. I wish I had continued the experiments, but I needed privacy to do these things (people tend to think your're nuts, strutting round your garden with a big marble tied to a piece of string).

I recognise that feeling that people have described that they are somehow slightly controlling the movement and I got this feeling too, but it felt more like I was responding to something, and there was a sort of 'feedback' element to it that I can't explain very well. Also, I was not consciously aware of Lethbridges rates, unless of course I did unconsciously take them in, which is always feasible. I'd like to do the experiments again sometime, and this time I'll do it properly and put the results through some strict statistical analysis.
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YithianOffline
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PostPosted: 14-06-2006 17:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting (45min) video of Randi playing with diviners down-under:

http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=64

Free and instant subscription necessary.
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