Forums

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages 
Al Qaeda works for the CIA..why shouldn't I believe this?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Conspiracy - The War on Terror
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Seventh_PilotOffline
grey man
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Total posts: 67
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 12:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bizarre Ted? I think it would be relatively easy to demonstrate you have a tendency toward intellectual snobbery. Problem is just because you obviously outwit us with your intellectual might doesn’t mean your right, or rather the sources and other peoples opinions you use are right.
Back to top
View user's profile 
HansluneOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Total posts: 151
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 13:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bin Laden is from a large wealthy family but under pressure from Saudi officials and others they cut him off.

He is either dead, incapitated or so deep into hiding that he's not advising or running anything anymore.

Despite Hollywood and other fantasies, its actually difficult to kill off people or arrange conspiracies to allow events to occur.

One wonders why the Israelis have never 'arranged' a desvastating attack on Israeli that would allow them to remove the Palestinans from the West bank - why not instead a multiple 911 style attack on European cities and America that blames the Palestinians? Strange that doesn't happen....
Back to top
View user's profile 
ted_bloody_maulOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 23 May 2003
Total posts: 4592
Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 13:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seventh_Pilot wrote:
Bizarre Ted? I think it would be relatively easy to demonstrate you have a tendency toward intellectual snobbery. Problem is just because you obviously outwit us with your intellectual might doesn’t mean your right, or rather the sources and other peoples opinions you use are right.


I hardly think asking for a logically composed argument based on evidence is intellectual snobbery. Using some sort of sources to back up your argument does make it easier to be right, though, and it's not simply a smug intellectual exercise - it's the way things are done in the real world.
Back to top
View user's profile 
ted_bloody_maulOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 23 May 2003
Total posts: 4592
Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 13:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanslune wrote:
One wonders why the Israelis have never 'arranged' a desvastating attack on Israeli that would allow them to remove the Palestinans from the West bank - why not instead a multiple 911 style attack on European cities and America that blames the Palestinians? Strange that doesn't happen....


Interestingly enough, though, the first group to claim responsibility for 9/11 was actually a Palestinian group and, iirc, certain elements of the attack did match their modus operandi.
Back to top
View user's profile 
crunchy5Offline
Great Old One
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Total posts: 1756
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 17:03    Post subject: Re: Al Quaeda works for the CIA..why shouldn't I believe thi Reply with quote

waitew wrote:
Considering everything Al Quaeda does seems to benifit certain elements of the US government & certain US corporations... from 911, providing an excuse for invading Afganistan & thus providing a route for pipelines for Caspian Basin oil/gas to profitably reach the west..to the dalily attacks in Iraq which provide an excuse to keep Iraqi oil off the market & thus keep oil prices high, resulting in record profits for both US oil companies & US defence contractors.
Considering the history of Al Quaeda.... created by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afganistan..& the close relationship between the Bin Ladins & the Bushes....Osama's brother funding 'W's' 1st failed texas oil business,Bush senior being with Osama's brother on 911 & lying about it, The bushes flying the Bin Ladin family out of the USA post 911 when one one else was allowed to fly..to allowing Osama to 'escape ' at Tora Bora.....tell me,why shouldn't i believe that Al Quaeda still works for elements in Washington?


Agreed
Back to top
View user's profile 
Jerry_BOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 15 Apr 2002
Total posts: 8076
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 19:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it blackly comical that some people think that the CIA has some sort all-encompassing power to contriol various situations and groups across the world but at the same time are not willing to believe that OBL and Al Q can do the same thing.

Not that I'm saying that either side has any such power - I'd just thought I'd point out that both sides of the argument need alot of assumptions in order for them to work. So, Al Q is not some sort of Bondesque baddy organisation, fronted by OBL and his white cat from a cave complex based somewhere or other. Similarly, the CIA, etc. is also not some sort of Bondesque super agency that sees all, knows all, and controls all (white cat optional)...
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 19:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry_B wrote:
I find it blackly comical that some people think that the CIA has some sort all-encompassing power to contriol various situations and groups across the world but at the same time are not willing to believe that OBL and Al Q can do the same thing.

Not that I'm saying that either side has any such power - I'd just thought I'd point out that both sides of the argument need alot of assumptions in order for them to work. So, Al Q is not some sort of Bondesque baddy organisation, fronted by OBL and his white cat from a cave complex based somewhere or other. Similarly, the CIA, etc. is also not some sort of Bondesque super agency that sees all, knows all, and controls all (white cat optional)...

Why not? They have the budget for it. If not, then where are all those tax dollars and slush funds going? confused

The US tax payer should be told! hah
Back to top
View user's profile 
Jerry_BOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 15 Apr 2002
Total posts: 8076
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 20:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defence spending suffers from a certain amount of hyper-inflation, which may account for the costs involved. Aside from that, money does not grant an organisation super-human capabilities. As has been pointed out, the CIA don't have a 100% success rate (far from it, in fact), despite the amount of money thrown at it over the years. The failure to dispose of Castro is a prime example.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 20:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry_B wrote:
... The failure to dispose of Castro is a prime example.

Apparently, your only example.

The World of straight bat intelligence services, where everything happens, just like it says on the tin.

It seems like it's only the intelligence services, from the former East bloc, that have any success in the assassination stakes and they fly economy class.

Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile 
ted_bloody_maulOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 23 May 2003
Total posts: 4592
Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 21:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
Jerry_B wrote:
... The failure to dispose of Castro is a prime example.

Apparently, your only example.

The World of straight bat intelligence services, where everything happens, just like it says on the tin.

It seems like it's only the intelligence services, from the former East bloc, that have any success in the assassination stakes and they fly economy class.

Rolling Eyes


It's not neccessarily the only failed assassination attempt, though. Given the claims made regarding Bin Laden one might expect similar claims of CIA skullduggery to be given the same credence. This might include the claims made by Hugo Chavez, Ayatollah Sayyid Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah or Mobutu. Perhaps there's more - who knows?

Now, admittedly there's no official records of this in the CIA files but is this really neccessary?
Back to top
View user's profile 
Jerry_BOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 15 Apr 2002
Total posts: 8076
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 21:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
Jerry_B wrote:
... The failure to dispose of Castro is a prime example.

Apparently, your only example.


No, just one example. It's a good one because, as has been pointed out, Cuba is pretty much on America's doorstep.

Quote:
It seems like it's only the intelligence services, from the former East bloc, that have any success in the assassination stakes and they fly economy class.


The CIA has preferred proxy means to dispose of what it considers opponents. It has a better record of disposing of these opponents in such a way - Allende, for example. That said, it failed to bring about any sort of coup that would dipose Castro. It failed to depose the Sandinistas, despite having 2 armies on hand to do so (and also failed to kill the leader of one of those armies with a bomb). Wider 'assassination' programmes, such as Operation Phoenix, also failed. IIRC, such tactics also failed against the Pathet Lao.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 22:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry_B wrote:
...

The CIA has preferred proxy means to dispose of what it considers opponents. ...

No! Really? Shocked

Do you mean like those proto-Al Quaida, from back in the Eighties, the Mujahadeen? confused
Back to top
View user's profile 
Jerry_BOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 15 Apr 2002
Total posts: 8076
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 23:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mujahadeen were not a precursor to Al Q. For a start, Al Q seems to be, at it's heart, more of a socio-political ideology involving action against what it considers to be enemies of Islam, as advocated by OBL. Since then, various other groups have decided to wear the same badge (justifiabley or not is a moot point). The mujahadeen weren't really the same sort of thing, especially in terms of ideology.

Also, you seem to have failed to understand my point about the use of proxies. I was actually referring to methodology, in response to what you said about the approach of Eastern Bloc agencies. Both the East and the West were involved in war by proxy and assassination during the Cold War. The point is that the CIA weren't particularly any better at it than anyone else, so the idea that nowadays they're somehow some sort of super-duper agency that can successfully do all sorts of things is somewhat daft. As I said, it's funny that some people can believe that the CIA can do all sorts of nefarious things, but refute the idea that OBL and Al Q can also do something similar. IMHO, both ideas are probably better suited to Tom Clancy novels than anything in real life Wink It's doubtful that the CIA have the sort of powers envisaged by some, just as it's equally doubtful that Al Q and OBL have various powers as envisaged by some others.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 29-05-2007 23:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry_B wrote:
Wink

You said it, buddy!
Back to top
View user's profile 
coldelephant
PostPosted: 30-05-2007 07:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry_B wrote:
Defence spending suffers from a certain amount of hyper-inflation, which may account for the costs involved. Aside from that, money does not grant an organisation super-human capabilities. As has been pointed out, the CIA don't have a 100% success rate (far from it, in fact), despite the amount of money thrown at it over the years. The failure to dispose of Castro is a prime example.


Well yes, writing continuous blank cheques for pointless wars will do that for you.

I mean, you can only sell so much of your own weapons etc to others before you fight them, and you have development costs on top of that...and then the development and production costs of new hi tech gear to defeat your previous best because you sold your previous best to your new enemy before the war right? Wink

As to the failure to dispose of Castro - I say again, why did they not just do another JFK?

They could have done it, and they did not.

I do not agree with the idea that they could not. Wink
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Conspiracy - The War on Terror All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 5 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group