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Shakespeare
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Who wrote the work attributed to Shakespeare?
Mr Shakespeare.
66%
 66%  [ 129 ]
Mr Marlowe.
5%
 5%  [ 10 ]
Mr Bacon.
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
Lots of different people.
12%
 12%  [ 24 ]
Someone else entirely.
4%
 4%  [ 9 ]
Aliens.
10%
 10%  [ 21 ]
Total Votes : 194

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Ronson8Offline
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PostPosted: 07-11-2011 14:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually he was a woman. Very Happy
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/may/28woman.htm
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Zilch5Offline
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PostPosted: 13-11-2011 23:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

A woman? Nah!! But a common thug...yes!

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2011/11/william-shakespeare-gangster/
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Spudrick68Offline
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PostPosted: 14-11-2011 19:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

I check out Project Gutenberg every day and a book has just been digitised for those interested:

"Bacon Is Shake-Speare by Sir Edwin Durning-Lawrence (1837 - 1914).

The link is:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/9847
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amyasleighOffline
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PostPosted: 20-11-2011 12:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronson8 wrote:
Actually he was a woman. Very Happy
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/may/28woman.htm

Apologies to all female participants on the forum: the forthcoming anecdote is from unenlightened times many decades ago.

A self-styled scholar was proclaiming that intensive study of Shakespeare’s writings and the background thereto, had led him to the conclusion that Shakespeare’s works had in fact been written by Queen Elizabeth I.

A more-established erudite gent ridiculed his idea, along the general lines that “material of such literary genius / wisdom / poetic insight / breadth of knowledge could not possibly have been created by a mere woman”.

Reply from the chap with the interesting theory: “Ah, but it is also my contention that Queen Elizabeth I was really a man.”
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Timble2Offline
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PostPosted: 20-11-2011 14:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

amyasleigh wrote:
,,,Reply from the chap with the interesting theory: “Ah, but it is also my contention that Queen Elizabeth I was really a man.”


There is a story that Queen Elizabeth I died as a girl and was substituted by a boy actor. The instigators of the plot were then obliged to maintain the deceit or end up in the Tower. It explains why Good Queen Bess never married. It's an early conspiracy theory and as bonkers as most of them are.

I can't remember the book, it was something about Historical Imposters and Google isn't helping.
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amyasleighOffline
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PostPosted: 20-11-2011 18:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Historical-fiction authors nowadays seem to churn out an endless flood of novels about the various Tudor women -- of which I've read a certain number, some of them postulating decidedly interesting scenarios about Liz's putative love/sex-life. This tale about her, would seem potentially splendid grist to these writer's mill...
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Anome_Offline
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PostPosted: 21-11-2011 17:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I always have with these theories is the sonnets.

Writing plays was seen as "beneath the station" of someone of noble birth, certainly, but writing sonnets is something that the nobility did without shame.

Even Queen Elizabeth wrote the odd rhyme, which is still attributed to her. (Although Shakespeare may have helped her with the title.)

So if Queen Elizabeth, or whoever the suspect du jour is, wrote the Shakespeare plays, and presumably the sonnets, why are there poems and other literary works attributed to them under their real name? And why is the one example of Elizabeth's poetry I've read so dull? (No, I don't mean the one I alluded to above.)
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SpookdaddyOffline
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PostPosted: 21-11-2011 18:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timble2 wrote:
...There is a story that Queen Elizabeth I died as a girl and was substituted by a boy actor. The instigators of the plot were then obliged to maintain the deceit or end up in the Tower. It explains why Good Queen Bess never married. It's an early conspiracy theory and as bonkers as most of them are.

I can't remember the book, it was something about Historical Imposters and Google isn't helping.


That wouldn't be the Bisley Boy bit of (forteanly enough) Bram Stoker's, Famous Imposters, would it?

There's a distant memory knocking somewhere in the attic that the whole Bisley Boy thing was created as a joke by some clergyman. (Probably reported as fact in the Mail sometime soon afterwards: New European legislation on ginger virgins means Queen has to talk about football and leave the seat up. There are now more Huguenots in a square yard of Southwark than there are sheep in the entire world. Board of Trade send Sir Francis Drake to investigate Spanish fishing fleet stealing English kippers from channel. Now they're telling us that burning Catholics in an enclosed space gives you the bloody flux.)
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Timble2Offline
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PostPosted: 21-11-2011 18:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spookdaddy wrote:
Timble2 wrote:
...There is a story that Queen Elizabeth I died as a girl and was substituted by a boy actor. The instigators of the plot were then obliged to maintain the deceit or end up in the Tower. It explains why Good Queen Bess never married. It's an early conspiracy theory and as bonkers as most of them are.

I can't remember the book, it was something about Historical Imposters and Google isn't helping.


That wouldn't be the Bisley Boy bit of (forteanly enough) Bram Stoker's, Famous Imposters, would it?



You're probably right, it's around 25 years since I read the book, which I found in Southampton Library.
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BlackPeterOffline
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PostPosted: 23-11-2011 00:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shakespeare is an immortal figure and therefore probably still alive in some sense his/her/its attributes therefore being possibly very variable
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 20-08-2012 06:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luvvies fall out:

Derek Jacobi and Mark Rylance criticised for doubting Shakespeare wrote plays
Leading theatrical figure Dame Janet Suzman has dismissed two of her fellow actors for believing the “conspiracy theory” that Shakespeare’s plays were really written by an aristocrat.
By Martin Beckford
1:21PM BST 19 Aug 2012

Dame Janet Suzman, who has starred in and directed many of the Bard’s plays, said it was “snobbish” to believe that the true author could not have been a playwright from Stratford.
She said it was “strange” that the acclaimed Shakespearean actors Sir Derek Jacobi and Mark Rylance took the “haughty” view that the dramas must have come from the pen of Edward de Vere, the 17th Earl of Oxford.

Dame Janet added that last year’s film Anonymous, which portrayed Shakespeare as a drunken idiot and the Earl as a literary genius, was “far-fetched” and a waste of money.

The South Africa-born actress and director, ex-wife of former Royal Shakespeare Company director Sir Trevor Nunn, told a Sunday newspaper that she got “mad as a snake” about what she sees as the myths surrounding Britain’s greatest playwright.
“It annoyed me… I suddenly felt like Joan of Arc riding into battle.”

Earlier this year Jacobi said that Shakespeare was just a “frontman” for the 17th Earl of Oxford, because the nobleman could not be seen as a “common playwright”.

Rylance, currently performing in Richard III at the Globe, has pointed out that the details about Italy in Shakespearean plays are “exact”, and that the Earl knew the country well.

But Dame Janet wrote in a new book: “You have to be a conspiracy theorist to imagine the earl secretly wrote 37 plays, performed and printed over a quarter of a century, without being found out.
“And you have to be a snob if you just hate it that the greatest poet the world has produced was born into the humble aldermanic classes of a provincial town.”
She went on: “How strange it is that Jacobi and Rylance, hundreds of years later, with their outstanding acting instincts, should embrace such a haughty view of the man who has made them as big as they are.”

A spokesman for Rylance said he did not only promote the “Oxfordian” theory while Jacobi was unavailable for comment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-news/9485729/Derek-Jacobi-and-Mark-Rylance-criticised-for-doubting-Shakespeare-wrote-plays.html
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eminaOffline
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PostPosted: 20-08-2012 19:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How should Shakespeare really sound?

Audio: The British Library have released the first audio guide to how Shakespeare's plays would have sounded in the original pronunciation.

Inspired by working with Kevin Spacey, Sir Trevor Nunn has claimed that American accents are "closer" than contemporary English to the accents of those used in the Bard's day.

The eminent Shakespearean scholar John Barton has suggested that Shakespeare's accent would have sounded to modern ears like a cross between a contemporary Irish, Yorkshire and West Country accent.

Others say that the speech of Elizabethans was much quicker than it is in modern day Shakespeare productions. Well, now you can judge for yourself.

There have been a handful of attempts to revive what The Globe call Shakespeare's "original pronunciation", but until now they have only been put on stage.

The British Library's new CD, Shakespeare’s original pronunciation, is the first of its kind featuring speeches and scenes which claim to be performed as Shakespeare would have heard them.

The CD is said to bring to life rhymes and jokes that are not audible in contemporary English - as well as to illustrate what Hamlet meant when he advised his actors to speak “trippingly upon the tongue”. (‘Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounced it to you, trippingly on the tongue’ -- Hamlet, Act 3)

The recording has been overseen by Ben Crystal, who has chosen the actors, and curated and directed their speeches.

"For the first time in centuries, we have 75 recorded minutes of sonnets, speeches and scenes recorded as we hope Shakespeare heard them. It is, in short, Shakespeare as you've never heard him before.

“The modern presentation of Shakespeare's plays and poems in period pronunciation has already attracted a wide following, despite the fact that hardly any recordings have been publicly available," he said.

The CD is also said to illustrate what Hamlet meant when he advised his actors to speak “trippingly upon the tongue”.’

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/9143302/How-should-Shakespeare-really-sound.html


There are several sample sound files to enjoy on the page! Very Happy Not very "Brummie" it has to be said.

Incidentally, the Ben Crystal mentioned in the article is the son of David Crystal, the eminent linguist and historian of the English Language, whose work I'd highly recommend. He presents an Open University programme on the Shakespeare pronunciation, along with Ben, which goes into more depth about the research and realisation of the project, with more explanations and demonstrations and vitally, analysis of how it often changes our understanding of the original meaning of many lines.

Enjoy it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
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JamesWhiteheadOffline
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PostPosted: 20-08-2012 19:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good find and thanks for posting it.

I might use those clips when I'm next faced by pupils protesting that Shakespeare is posh!

If I have doubts, it's about the way those very intimate readings would have projected.
Macbeth, certainly, could not have used a microphone voice way-back! Smile
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 20-08-2012 20:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And this also raises the question of how the present day Brummie accent arose (which is a long way from Mummerset!)

On second thoughts, Shakespeare left home while still a young man, and may well have lost any local accent he might have had while working in The Smoke, and touring around the rest of the country.

So is this Original Pronunciation actually a version of London English, perhaps with other dialects thrown in?

To say it has a lot in common with American English merely reflects the fact that AE derives quite strongly from that of West Country sailors and Irish immigrants.

England (not to mention the rest of the UK) still has a range of regional accents, so the more I think about it the more it seems difficult to pin down a pronunciation from the 1600s. If certain puns or jokes worked in London, did they still work so well in the provinces?

As so often, a touch of enlightenment has actually left me more confused! Sad
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 23-04-2013 07:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shakespeare scholars try to see off the Bard's doubters
By Sean Coughlan, BBC News education correspondent

This is the 449th birthday of William Shakespeare. Well, actually, it might be his birthday, because we don't really know when he was born.
There is a date for his baptism - with his name recorded in Latin as "Gulielmus" - and then it's a case of working back a few days.

It's an educated guess. And much of the endless debate about the identity of the author of Shakespeare's plays is because so much of the presumed life story is educated guesswork.

But a new book - William Shakespeare Beyond Doubt - wants to put the record straight once and for all, as a forthright counterblast against those who question his authorship.

Stanley Wells, honorary president of the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust and eminent Shakespearean scholar, now aged 82, has marshalled an international line-up of academics to defend the Bard.
This literary raiding party rounds up and brings to book claimants such as the Earl of Oxford, Christopher Marlowe and Francis Bacon.

But why have there been so many questions about the identity of the author?
"I think the phenomenon goes down partly to snobbery; to a feeling of resentment, even anger, that someone from a relatively humble background should have been able to create such works of genius," says Prof Wells.

He also rejects as ill-informed the suggestion that Shakespeare's limited formal education rules him out as the author of the plays.
"A lot of it is due to ignorance, especially of the Elizabethan educational background, of the sort a boy in Stratford could have got at the local grammar school.
"It was rather limited, but a very intense classical education, in rhetoric and oratory, speaking Latin from the time they were eight years old, having to speak it in the classroom and the playground."

Co-editor Paul Edmondson, head of research at the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust, says the authorship attacks are part of a wider culture of conspiracy theories.
There is a constant curiosity to show that "reality is not what it seems"
.
But the book also shows how long this struggle has been running.

In the 1850s there were claims for Francis Bacon. When this fell out of fashion, Christopher Marlowe was touted as the secret author, with the argument that he had faked his death and borrowed Shakespeare's name for his writing.

This theory was somewhat scuppered in the 1920s when the coroner's report from Marlowe's inquest was discovered. He might have been killed in very suspicious circumstances, but he was fairly unambiguously dead and buried before many of Shakespeare's plays had been written.

etc, etc...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22206151

Will's DoB may be slightly iffy, but today is also the anniversary of his death in 1616.
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