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| What do we do? |
| Contact them to explain the outside world and then allow them to make up their minds |
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5% |
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| Intervene and try to modernize their lifestyles |
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1% |
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| Leave them alone, but be open to them contacting us |
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46% |
[ 42 ] |
| Do everything possible to keep them isolated |
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46% |
[ 42 ] |
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| Total Votes : 90 |
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the_walkin_dude Yeti Joined: 28 Apr 2006 Total posts: 68 Gender: Male |
 Posted: 30-05-2008 12:46 Post subject: 'Untouched' tribes of the Amazon |
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24880941/
A Brazilian government plane overflew a village of one of the few remaining uncontacted tribes of the world, deep in a protected jungle reserve on the border with Peru. The tribesmen responded by firing arrows... an indication of how they feel about outsiders?
Given that they undoubtedly suffer from lower life expectancies, higher infant mortality rates, etc etc... what should the outside world do? You've got the traditional 'white man's burden' argument, that these are human beings in need of help and don't deserve to be categorized as some sort of exotic wildlife. On the other hand, interference doesn't have a good historical track record. Plus wouldn't just coming into contact with them mean passing on all sorts of diseases onto them which they have no immunity to?
Last edited by the_walkin_dude on 06-06-2008 19:22; edited 3 times in total |
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theyithian Keeping the British end up
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Total posts: 11704 Location: Vermilion Sands Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 30-05-2008 15:45 Post subject: Re: 'Untouched' tribes of the Amazon |
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| the_walkin_dude wrote: | | Given that they undoubtedly suffer from lower life expectancies, higher infant mortality rates, etc etc... what should the outside world do? |
With no external reference, i'm not sure we can say they are 'suffering from' any of these things. From their perspective their mortality rates and life expectancies would be considerd quite normal - unless they have dropped recently, thus giving an unfavourable comparison with the past.
We should leave respectfully alone.
If they come looking for others then we should interact. Until then, let's not run the risk of screwing their lives up.
Also, you say one of 'a few' remaining tribes. 100 is not a few. Although it is dozens more than i suspected before this story arose. |
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| foxenigma Grey Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Total posts: 22 Location: Rugby, UK Age: 31 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 30-05-2008 15:59 Post subject: Re: 'Untouched' tribes of the Amazon |
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| theyithian wrote: | We should leave respectfully alone.
If they come looking for others then we should interact. Until then, let's not run the risk of screwing their lives up. |
sadly as they have now witnessed a 'mysterious metal bird in the sky', remembering that technology way in advance of that possessed by the viewer of an event is 'indistiguishable from magic' then damage may already be done. |
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| eburacum Papo-Furado
Great Old One Joined: 26 Aug 2005 Total posts: 1587 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 30-05-2008 19:59 Post subject: |
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This is interesting;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7427417.stm
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MALOCAS
Malocas, or communal houses, are typically thatched. They often have fires, used for cooking or heating during the night. Smaller structures are used for cooking and other tasks, while larger buildings can be used as sleeping areas, and are usually equipped with hammocks.
The thatched roof does not reach to the ground suggesting that this is an area for communal activities including cooking, socialising or preparing the paste that is used for dyes and body paint.
COTTON AND BASKET
The white blob in the photograph could well be cotton, and the beige area next to it is probably a basket. The cotton would either be cultivated by the tribe, or gathered in the wild. It would be woven by the women, into the kind of short skirt worn by the black figure. Cotton would also be used to make hammocks.
The woven basket has a strap which would be either worn across the forehead or over the shoulder and would be used during the collection of cotton or other produce.
TWO MEN
These men are trying to drive off the plane from which these photographs were taken. They are aiming their bows at the aircraft, which had returned to fly over the settlement for a second time, after making a first pass some hours earlier.
The men have large bows made from forest hardwood, which they use to hunt for animals including tapirs, monkeys, deer, wild pigs and other small mammals.
They have also painted themselves with the red dye, urucum, commonly used by tribes in the Amazon. It is made from the seeds of a fruit similar to the horse chestnut. The seeds are ground into a paste to form the dye.
The body paint is most likely a show of aggression, possibly in response to the plane's first flyover.
WOMAN
The black figure may be a woman, although it is impossible to be certain. That this person is not carrying a bow hints in this direction. The black body paint is called genipapo, and is made from fruit. Like the red dye it is likely to be an aggressive display.
SETTLEMENT
The series of buildings have very little space cleared around them, and are set deep into the forest. This suggests that the tribe are keen to keep themselves hidden.
The larger building is most likely used for sleeping quarters, the smaller buildings would be used for food preparation, cooking and other practical tasks.
The surrounding area has signs of cultivation by the tribe, who are probably maintaining gardens of manioc, a type of tuber which would form a large part of their staple diet.
Source: Fiona Watson, campaigns director Survival International. |
I must say, however, that even untouched tribes quite often have some indirect contact with the outside world, via trading or word of mouth and so on. Don't know if that is the case here, tho'. |
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| Xanatico Great Old One Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Total posts: 1141 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 30-05-2008 20:17 Post subject: |
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At least it goes against the idea that you have to believe in things to see them, a la the ships of spansh conquerors.
When it comes to wether to interfere or not, it seems to me that the other tribes that has been done with fared rather badly. Untill the different goverments actually fulfill their promises to such people, I don´t think more tribes need to get involved. |
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| emmadilemma32 Grey Joined: 14 Apr 2007 Total posts: 6 Location: sc Gender: Female |
| Posted: 30-05-2008 22:39 Post subject: Rare Indian Tribe Spotted in Brazil |
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| Ok, this story is at the top of the aol headlines right now, as are the pictures. Am I the only person that quesitons the all black figure in with the red skinned natives? I wish there was a closer pic, as this figure def. has a more huminoid-apeish look from afar. Anyone have any ideas? |
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| emmadilemma32 Grey Joined: 14 Apr 2007 Total posts: 6 Location: sc Gender: Female |
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| Ronson8 Things can only get better.
Great Old One Joined: 31 Jul 2001 Total posts: 6063 Location: MK Gender: Male |
| Posted: 30-05-2008 23:14 Post subject: |
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We need your land to graze our cattle, in return we will give you golden arches!  |
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| PeniG Proud children's writer Joined: 31 Dec 2003 Total posts: 2920 Location: San Antonio, Texas Age: 52 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 30-05-2008 23:44 Post subject: |
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Human-apish? It looks to me like two red-painted men and one black-painted (or dark-skinned and even darker in contrast) woman.
The color values are a bit startling. It must be a pain to paint yourself from head to toe like that every day. But maybe the plane interrupted a ceremony and they don't always make up that much. |
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| eburacum Papo-Furado
Great Old One Joined: 26 Aug 2005 Total posts: 1587 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 31-05-2008 03:13 Post subject: |
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| The theory is that they painted themselves in response to a previous sighting of the plane, hoping perhaps to scare the plane (or its pilot) away. |
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| spiritdoctor raised by wolves
Great Old One Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Total posts: 201 Location: In a world of my own Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 31-05-2008 03:41 Post subject: Re: 'Untouched' tribes of the Amazon |
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| the_walkin_dude wrote: | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24880941/
Given that they undoubtedly suffer from lower life expectancies, higher infant mortality rates, etc etc... what should the outside world do? You've got the traditional 'white man's burden' argument, that these are human beings in need of help |
You've got to be kidding me, in what way are they in need of help? I think its really terrible there are hardly any uncontacted tribes left. At least a protected area has been set up for them. (Although I'm not sure what the point of that is if you're going to fly low over their village in broad daylight spraying them with fumes etc and then send the pictures to international media. Why not just give out a map and coordinates of their village at the same time? )
Personally I think the body painting and arrows might not be a sign of aggression but that they are regarding the plane in a more religious way |
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| foxenigma Grey Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Total posts: 22 Location: Rugby, UK Age: 31 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 31-05-2008 12:18 Post subject: Re: 'Untouched' tribes of the Amazon |
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| spiritdoctor wrote: | | Personally I think the body painting and arrows might not be a sign of aggression but that they are regarding the plane in a more religious way |
That doesn't seem entirely likely, how would they know the plane was going to pass over at that moment. Seems more likely they were body painted, as a previous poster suggested, because they were involved in some sort of ritual and they were shooting arrows at the plane for the reason most peoples would fire an arrow: in the hope of knocking the potential predator out of the sky.
Last edited by foxenigma on 31-05-2008 21:39; edited 1 time in total |
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| LeapingEri Great Old One Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Total posts: 150 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 31-05-2008 15:51 Post subject: Re: 'Untouched' tribes of the Amazon |
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| theyithian wrote: | We should leave respectfully alone.
If they come looking for others then we should interact. Until then, let's not run the risk of screwing their lives up.
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I wholeheartedly agree with this! Unfortunately, we might think they've "come looking for others" when all they've done is return to familiar territory that, unknown to them, has been taken over by us. |
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| the_walkin_dude Yeti Joined: 28 Apr 2006 Total posts: 68 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 31-05-2008 16:52 Post subject: Re: 'Untouched' tribes of the Amazon |
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| spiritdoctor wrote: |
You've got to be kidding me, in what way are they in need of help? |
Just to be clear, I think intervention is a bad idea. But at the same time it is, on some level, grotesque to be withholding modern medicine because we like the idea of there still being a community of 'primitive men' out there. Ideally there could be some sort of 'collection station' on the edge of the reserve staffed by nearby natives with stocks of medicine and if necessary somewhere where a severely ill person could be airlifted to a hospital. This is ignoring the fact that you'd have to get the word out about the station, which defeats the point of non-intervention.
I don't know, I'm just not completely comfortable with the idea that people and children are dying of easily treatable diseases... but I agree, going in and 'civilizing' them would be disastrous. |
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| BuckeyeJones Dichotomous Joined: 03 May 2004 Total posts: 412 Location: On a sea of kerosene in a match stick boat Gender: Male |
| Posted: 01-06-2008 03:25 Post subject: |
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Greetings,
I say leave 'em alone.
I bet these folks sleep a lot better than most of us.
As far as a shortened life... I would hate to live to be a hundred plus lying and dying in bed from nothing if I could have lived fifty years as a free man living in tune with the original planet lay out.
PEACE! |
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