Forums

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages 
Challenger Disaster- Soviet Plot?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Conspiracy - general
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
WowBaggerOffline
Grey
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Total posts: 24
Location: UK
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 05-02-2010 21:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear, the tone of that excerpt was not a coincidence, although thanks for posting it Enola. "http://www.columbiassacrifice.com/pages_support/$news.htm" is quite an awful website, making outlandish claims about HAARP being involved in Columbia's demise, and probably the recent Haiti earthquake if I probe deeper (any C2C listeners out there?). It does also claim that the flight recorder that was unique to Columbia was taken out (below) in 2000, but I trust that about as much as the HAARP nonsense.

Quote:
The extra instrumentation enabled the gathering of a wealth of information on the orbiter's performance. Much of that wiring was left intact when the research equipment was removed in order to avoid the extra time and cost required to remove those wires, said Allen M. Hoffman, director of Boeing's Assembly, Integration and Test operations for the Human Space Flight and Exploration Facility.
Because of the extensiveness of this modification and maintenance job, much of that experimental equipment and wiring unique to Columbia was removed.


With regard to "http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sts107_oexdata_030327.html" I do see a logical and impartial account, however with my paranoid hat on; there is a big problem in the cleaning repairing and copying process that makes me suspicious of the new tape and its supposed contents. Add to this the frankly ridiculous pictures of the OEX recorder on the site.

http://i.space.com/images/sts107_oex2_02.jpg
http://i.space.com/images/sts107_oex1_02.jpg

I've done more damage to a PC dropping it from desk height than this thing has suffered falling out of an exploded spaceship! It matches the reconstruction images I saw on Seconds From Disaster but they were nuts also. Where's the dents, cracks, scorching, and other attached bits of Columbia bulkhead? It looks like its just been removed from a rack mount, had its connecters cut, and left out in the rain for a bit.

I will continue looking...
Back to top
View user's profile 
McAvennie_Offline
OBE
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Total posts: 2597
Location: Paris, France
Age: 35
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 05-02-2010 21:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

rynner2 wrote:
Challenger space shuttle disaster amateur video discovered
Video of the 1986 disaster was locked in Florida man's basement for almost 25 years


I love the camera guys commentary.

"Is that trouble George? Sure looks like they are having some kind of trouble"

No shit Grandpa, the thing just f-ing exploded! Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile 
EnolaGaiaOffline
Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Total posts: 1540
Location: USA
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 06-02-2010 19:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OEX recorder was only installed on Columbia and Challenger (the first two shuttles), and it was not removed in the subsequent refitting (though many of the sensors that originally fed it were ...).

The entire 'shelf' (attached bundle of external connectors) was ripped away.

If you look back through accounts of the recorder's discovery, there are variations in description of the site. Most indicate it was an area wooded with pines (which would have helped cushion its fall). Some describe it as being 'embedded' in damp soil and pine needles, and one mentioned indications it had slid after hitting the ground.

Perhaps the most extensive descriptive article is that of _Orlando Sentinel_ reporter Kevin Spear, which can be accessed independently at the newspaper's archive:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2003-04-07/news/0304070237_1_wing-recorder-re-entry

... so as to check whether it had been modified or edited when posted to the site you find so suspicious.
Back to top
View user's profile 
WowBaggerOffline
Grey
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Total posts: 24
Location: UK
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 06-02-2010 21:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

EnolaGaia wrote:
... so as to check whether it had been modified or edited when posted to the site you find so suspicious.


Please don't get me wrong Enola, I do think that the official story is the credible, and I mean no criticism of you personally (unless you are the writer of those articles?) and I am just stunned that an 8 track tape recorder can firstly survive the fall intact, not be found despite a number of searches of the same area, and then for the tape be reconstructed to confirm the official story, is just weird and questionable.

EnolaGaia wrote:
The entire 'shelf' (attached bundle of external connectors) was ripped away.


The articles on previous posts said the recorder was secured under a seat, so I'm curious to know with what authority you write on this fact?

Given the programme's take on the story, it could all be exagerated nonsense, but i've lived next to pine woodland, and while nothing grows amongst the pine needles on the ground (and in your garden), save for a few bushes and nettles, it doesn't provide much of a cushion for falling space debris.

Added to this, that report at "http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2003-04-07/news/0304070237_1_wing-recorder-re-entry " says the recorder was "Found resting on a bed of leaves" rather than pine needles, and this raises further questions in my mind.

Another question that the report raises for me is that of the radar returns, it states "radar analysis shows a likelihood that a piece of the wing -- an access panel near the wing's leading edge -- floated away from the shuttle on its second day in orbit." I work in the radar business and there's no way that a primary radar (3d or otherwise) on the ISS, the shuttle itself, or the ground could detect a piece of the shuttle that small floating away, and wasn't it supposed to be a heat shield (number 8 ) that had been smashed by the foam rather than an access panel?

To finish, it's just the HAARP stuff that I find suspicious about that other website, Ionosphere experiments are one thing but, causing Columbia's demise, earthquakes, and other weather phenomena is just daft in my book.
Back to top
View user's profile 
EnolaGaiaOffline
Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Total posts: 1540
Location: USA
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 07-02-2010 00:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'shelf' doesn't refer to a shelf on which the OEX recorder is mounted. It refers to the modular wiring connector module originally attached to the end of the OEX recorder.

Here is a NASA photo of an OEX recorder with this shelf in place:

http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/detail/nasaNAS~16~16~117303~224023:
Back to top
View user's profile 
WowBaggerOffline
Grey
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Total posts: 24
Location: UK
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 07-02-2010 09:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

EnolaGaia wrote:
The 'shelf' doesn't refer to a shelf on which the OEX recorder is mounted.


Ah, I can see that from the photo, thanks for posting it. The previous post read like the "shelf" was load bearing, which it isn't, and I can imagine the bulk of the recorder coming away from its connecters during the breakup.

I'm more curious as to your background now, it seems that while i'm just starting to look into this, you have already been there before me. Would you care to share what your overview would be, and whether you think there's anything conspiritorial going on? Did you see the Nat Geo programme at all, and do you think it is a fair account with respect to the OEX recorder?
Back to top
View user's profile 
DrPaulLeeOffline
Yeti
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Total posts: 87
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 27-02-2010 13:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

That isn't the only amateur footage of the Challenger disaster. A tape
was made from New Smyrna beach, many miles to the north of the launch site. I've seen it, and stills were included in the now defunct magazine "Spaceflight News" in late 186 (the footage was unearthed after the commission's report was issued).
The film shows that the shuttle's trajectory has an unusual kink, bending upwards at 40 seconds into the flight, and at about this time, an unusual
second tail starts to develop, 19 seconds before the O ring leak that destroyed the shuttle.
NASA was given the tape, and poo-poo-ed it, saying that the tape shows nothing remarkable. This is nonsense as it includes two features that were not even known about during the inquiry!

Paul
--
http://www.paullee.com
Back to top
View user's profile 
rynner2Offline
What a Cad!
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Total posts: 26170
Location: Under the moon
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 19-03-2013 08:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Challenger, BBC Two, review
Horatia Harrod was gripped by The Challenger, a BBC Two drama about the 1986 Challenger space shuttle disaster, starring William Hurt.
By Horatia Harrod
6:30AM GMT 19 Mar 2013

The exuberant physicist Richard Feynman was one of the first great popularisers of science. He was a non-conformist, a musician (his bongo playing reminds one of our latter-day hero, keyboardist-turned-physicist Brian Cox) and a Nobel Prize winner. In the opening scenes of The Challenger (BBC Two), a feature-length drama, we saw him – or rather William Hurt, who played Feynman with a virile, prickly energy – address a lecture hall of whooping students, the atmosphere as rapturous as a Revival meeting.

Spliced into these scenes was archive TV footage of the launch and explosive destruction of the Nasa Space Shuttle Challenger, on January 28, 1986. All seven crew members were killed. Soon after, despite his distaste for Washington politicking – “They’re a bunch of bureaucrats with pokers up their asses,” he remarked to his wife – Feynman accepted an appointment to the Rogers Commission, set up by Ronald Reagan to investigate the disaster.

What followed was part political thriller – the commission’s chairman, Bill Rogers, played with hulking menace by Brian Dennehy, seemed set on stonewalling anything which might harm Nasa’s reputation – and part scientific mystery. The Challenger had 2.5 million parts: Feynman set himself the task of discovering which was at fault. Turning this cerebral sort of business into drama can be a tricky act to pull off. Fortunately for the
film-makers, Feynman’s life’s work was making science accessible. The denouement of the drama was a brilliant piece of theatre at a press conference: Feynman immersed a crucial component of the shuttle in a glass of ice, cold enough to show how it would have malfunctioned on the freezing morning of the launch. The scene was copied directly from life.

For all his great charisma, Feynman was shown in The Challenger in dark moods, his good humour sorely tested by the investigation. He was ill, too: at one point he observed his cancerous sarcoma through a microscope, trying to understand what was faulty - a perfectly realised analogy for his ingrained rigour and humanity. An atmosphere of stately gloom prevailed, but I found Feynman’s methodical progress hypnotising.

There was something timeless about The Challenger, especially as there were no obvious visual clues to the period, no bubble perms or shoulder-padded suits. Our science is only as pure as our nature, it suggested – which is to say, not very. Feynman, whose work on nuclear fission in the Forties helped to annihilate Hiroshima and Nagasaki, knew that better than most.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9938616/The-Challenger-BBC-Two-review.html

On iPlayer:

The Challenger

When the space shuttle Challenger blew up in 1986, it was the most shocking event in the history of American spaceflight. The deaths of seven astronauts, including the first teacher in space Christa McAuliffe, were watched live on television by millions of viewers. But what was more shocking was that the cause of the disaster might never be uncovered. The Challenger is the story of how Richard Feynman, one of America's most famous scientists, helped to discover the cause of a tragedy that stunned America.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00zstkn/The_Challenger/

Available until
10:29PM Mon, 25 Mar 2013

Also:

William Hurt: 'I want to do what's least expected of me'
Hollywood star William Hurt tells Vicki Power about his role in BBC Two drama The Challenger

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9927176/William-Hurt-I-want-to-do-whats-least-expected-of-me.html
Back to top
View user's profile 
smokeheadOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Total posts: 256
Location: West Midlands.
Age: 53
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 19-03-2013 19:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic review R2 yeay
I enjoyed it as a drama, there was the usual disclaimer that some scenes had been created for dramatic purposes,but I'm glad the experiment with the glass of ice water was true, it made for a great aha! monent.
Jim Al Khalilli,who I like very much, talked about Feynman in his brilliant series Atom, your introduction to him omitted certain references to his behaviour, more in keeping with the custom of a gentleman rather than a cad. Very Happy
All the best.
Back to top
View user's profile 
MythopoeikaOffline
Joined: 18 Sep 2001
Total posts: 9664
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 19-03-2013 20:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed The Challenger, even though it was a typical William Hurt subdued slow-burner.
It made me admire Feynman all the more.
Back to top
View user's profile 
rynner2Offline
What a Cad!
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Total posts: 26170
Location: Under the moon
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 19-03-2013 21:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mythopoeika wrote:
I enjoyed The Challenger, even though it was a typical William Hurt subdued slow-burner.
It made me admire Feynman all the more.

Just watched it myself. Yes, a slow-burner, but the revelation at the very end was a cracker which I hadn't expected - it was actually a LOL moment!

IIRC the beeb did another documentary on this some years ago - Horizon, or maybe Panorama?

Anyhow, good science, good drama. Cool
Back to top
View user's profile 
ChrisBoardmanOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 17 May 2011
Total posts: 762
Location: Alton, Hampshire
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 20-03-2013 14:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did the film the other night reveal anything new?
Back to top
View user's profile 
drbatesOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Total posts: 526
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 20-03-2013 21:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

rynner2 wrote:
Mythopoeika wrote:
I enjoyed The Challenger, even though it was a typical William Hurt subdued slow-burner.
It made me admire Feynman all the more.

Just watched it myself. Yes, a slow-burner, but the revelation at the very end was a cracker which I hadn't expected - it was actually a LOL moment!

IIRC the beeb did another documentary on this some years ago - Horizon, or maybe Panorama?

Anyhow, good science, good drama. Cool


Did it reveal how the Challenger Disaster could END THE WORLD? If so it was probably Horizon
Back to top
View user's profile 
rynner2Offline
What a Cad!
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Total posts: 26170
Location: Under the moon
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 13-05-2013 08:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Challenger was repeated last night, followed by a new documentary about Feynman himself.

The Fantastic Mr Feynman

Richard Feynman is one of the most iconic, influential and inspiring scientists of the 20th century. He helped design the atomic bomb, solved the mystery of the Challenger Shuttle catastrophe and won a Nobel Prize. Now, 25 years after his death - in his own words and those of his friends and family - this is the story of the most captivating communicator in the history of science.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p016d3kk/The_Fantastic_Mr_Feynman/

Available until
12:19AM Wed, 22 May 2013
Back to top
View user's profile 
RhinoHornOffline
Grey
Joined: 13 May 2013
Total posts: 20
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 23-06-2013 11:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand the need to focus on one person for the sake of drama, but "The Challenger" was dreadful. Neglecting the technical mistakes in the film, it was all "Feynman-Feynman-Feynman". His role into the disaster's investigation has been largely exaggerated.
What would have been better if they'd worked with Richard Cook, the NASA whistleblower who revealed to the world the "O ring" problems. If you're interested in Challenger, his book "Challenger revealed" is a must-read. I just feel that his conclusions are a bit of a let down. I won't reveal why, but it involves a suitably Fortean subject... Wink
Back to top
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Conspiracy - general All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group