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Deepcut Serial Sentry Slotter
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 29-09-2003 17:03    Post subject: Re: a really paranoid theory... Deepcut and Dr Kelly Reply with quote

Goldstein wrote:


Of course, before something so out-there could be tried on Dr Kelly, or anyone else high up, there would have to be practice... and who better to practice on than young, zealous, vulnerable and hidden-away from the public eye army recruits? Perhaps this was the true nature of Deepcut's "training ground"...



Er...it's where they teach the Loggies to count blankets...

The Deepcut deaths were murders as was Dr, Kelly...whoever killed themselves, then tried to resuscitate themselves with a defibrillator? (His body had marks on the chest from the paddles, so I'm told) They are good for torturing, though.
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ted_bloody_maulOffline
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PostPosted: 30-09-2003 12:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

the 'apparent' suicide of dr kelly is because the findings of the hutton inquiry have not yet been delivered. after that The Sun will be able to report 'Bonkers doc slashed his own wrists - official' and we can all go back to bed safe in the knowledge that what we thought were the howls of wolves outside was actually just the wind.roll eyes (sarcastic)
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 30-09-2003 13:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hutton inquiry is not a criminal investigation though is it. The inquiry is not to determine if Dr Kelly killed himself, but if the actions of the government and the BBC led to Dr Kelly killing himself (although this is not the extent of the inquiry). The cause of death has, rightly or wrongly, already been recorded as suicide, I believe.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 30-09-2003 20:31    Post subject: Re: Re: a really paranoid theory... Deepcut and Dr Kelly Reply with quote

Inverurie Jones wrote:

whoever killed themselves, then tried to resuscitate themselves with a defibrillator? (His body had marks on the chest from the paddles, so I'm told)


Not quite. Looks like he had been wearing a Holter monitor to monitor his heart. (Done the same thing myself a few years back, when I was earning a few extra pennies doing drugs testing. I was always a bit worried that if I was found wandering around the less salubrious areas, someone might think I was wearing a "wire".)
Quote:
[B]
Jeevan Vasagar
Saturday August 2, 2003
The Guardian

Four electrode pads found on David Kelly's chest are likely to have been used to monitor his heart with a portable device called a Holter monitor.

At the opening of yesterday's inquiry Lord Hutton described the outcome of the postmortem examination on Dr Kelly's body carried out by Nicholas Hunt, a Home Office pathologist. He repeated what is already known - that the main factor in Dr Kelly's death was bleeding from an incised wound to his left wrist.

But Dr Hunt said Dr Kelly had a significant degree of coronary artery disease and that four electro-cardiogram pads were found on his chest.

If Dr Kelly was wearing a Holter monitor, the electrodes would have been linked by wires to a small battery-operated recorder, which can be worn hooked to a belt or slung from a strap.

Usually worn for 24 hours, the device detects and records arrhythmias - abnormal heart rates. The test is usually not the first step in investigating problems.

If a doctor suspects a patient has an arrhythmia, he or she will normally arrange for an electrocardiogram (ECG) in a hospital, during which electrodes are stuck to the patient's limbs and chest then linked to a machine to record cardiac rhythm and electrical activity. An ECG can detect problems with the rhythm and show if the patient has had a recent heart attack. It can tell if the patient's heart is enlarged.

If the heart disturbances come and go at irregular times, it may be necessary for a patient to be fitted with a Holter monitor, during which the patient keeps a diary to record daily activities and any symptoms experienced.

The testing helps the doctor evaluate the type and amount of irregular heartbeats during regular activities, exercise and sleep.

Checking against the diary, the doctor can correlate symptoms such as dizziness, palpitations or shortness of breath with rhythms recorded by the monitor.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/kelly/story/0,13747,1010924,00.html
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 30-09-2003 20:39    Post subject: Re: Re: Re: a really paranoid theory... Deepcut and Dr Kelly Reply with quote

Fortis wrote:

Not quite. Looks like he had been wearing a Holter monitor to monitor his heart. (Done the same thing myself a few years back, when I was earning a few extra pennies doing drugs testing. I was always a bit worried that if I was found wandering around the less salubrious areas, someone might think I was wearing a "wire".)


Fair do's. Just passing on what I'd heard. Mind you, it means there's a rumour that Blair is in the business of having people killed, which, if it even makes one voter turn against him, is all to the greater good.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 30-09-2003 23:51    Post subject: . Reply with quote

Abolish the Offical Secrets Act and let the truth be known.
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ArthurASCIIOffline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2003 06:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smudge wrote the following slogan:
Quote:
[B]Abolish the Offical Secrets Act and let the truth be known.


I assume (judging from the fact that your location says Australia) that it is the Australian Official Secrets Act that you wish to abolish?

Right on.

It'll be interesting to get the lowdown on what REALLY happened to the poor boat people who so unfortunately drowned a little while ago.
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McAvennie_Offline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2003 09:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypnotised to suicide. Can't be that hard can it? Go to Kelly's gaff, wait for him to go for a walk. Hold him down and hypnotise him, 'When I clap you will go into the wood and kill yourself'. Give hima blade and Bob's your uncle.
It sounds so ludicrous that it would work probably undetected.
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ted_bloody_maulOffline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2003 12:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

i believe hutton is a fatal accident inquiry, which may determine future criminal proceedings depending on the findings. as for the hypnotism it seems pretty unlikely to me. sure, it can be done and sirhan sirhan's name springs immediately to mind (hypnosis?) but generally speaking for hypnosis to overide somebody's emotional or moral conscience that person would have to be mentally very weak or unstable. it's why if you suggest to somebody at a hypnotics show that they kill themselves there and then they'd be pretty unlikely to do it. they don't want the attention that much.

personally, i reckon he did it to protect his own family - he might not reckon the fear of a secret intelligence backlash should deter him from going public but, understandably, when your family is threatened it's not really your decision to make. having been named it was, perhaps in his mind, the only way to guarantee the safety of his family.

i know this sounds a bit like the plot to eastenders right now but trust me, it hasn't influenced my thinking.
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wembley8Offline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2003 16:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

The portable monitor theory, though ingenious, was chucked out a few days later when the real explanation for the pads turned up: they were actually left there by the ambualnce team that tried to resucitate Dr Kelly, as confirmed by the Coroner -

"Mr Gardiner also sought to clarify the use of the four cardio-electrode pads that were found on Dr Kelly's chest at the time of his death, confirming that they were placed there by paramedics on the scene to detect heart action. "

http://media.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4733323-105236,00.html

Of course, it could just be another cover-up...
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 01-10-2003 16:08    Post subject: Re: . Reply with quote

smudge wrote:

Abolish the Offical Secrets Act and let the truth be known.


An extremely unhealthy idea for the whole country, I assure you.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 01-10-2003 17:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wembley wrote:

"Mr Gardiner also sought to clarify the use of the four cardio-electrode pads that were found on Dr Kelly's chest at the time of his death, confirming that they were placed there by paramedics on the scene to detect heart action. "

http://media.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4733323-105236,00.html

Of course, it could just be another cover-up...

Damn, got the wrong iteration of the explanation. Surprised
Still, it is a pretty inoccuous explanation for what happened. Smile
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 01-10-2003 19:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've often thought that even if there's no conspiracy, surely the (apparently) high rate of suicides amongst weapons biologists is cause for concern. I.E., implying that they aren't in the best of health, one way or another. Exactly who you'd want sat round playing with anthrax hybrids or giant mumps or whatever the hell it is they mess with.

I've signed the OSA. Anybody else? Or does that contravene it? Shit, no, I've not signed it at all, obviously.
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Black River FallsOffline
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PostPosted: 01-10-2003 23:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've signed the OSA myself, I only know one good one and it's high level fraud rather than national security type stuff.

Re the hypnosis thing, most people aren't that easy to hypnotise to the point of extreme suggestabilty, even with their consent. Inducing a trance depends on the subject being very relaxed, which isn't likely to be the case if several thugs are holding you down.

Also bear in mind that stage hypnotists do a trial session with the whole audience before the show starts to identify the people who are most susceptable to it, so the people that you see on stage gobbling like turkeys are probably the 1% if the audience with the highest susceptability.

That aside, it supposedly impossible to make someone do something that they seriously object ti while hypnotised.
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Mighty_EmperorOffline
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PostPosted: 02-10-2003 02:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

A simpler explanation would be that the secret services threatened his family with a 'mysterious accident' of course a man in a high stress job put under more stress would have been a prime candidate for suicide anyway - I'm more inclined to believe it is more negelegence on behalf of his superiors why didn't he have an MOD minder with him to look after him? Tabloids and the lottery do it an its less critical than this).

Emps
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