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MPs' Expenses
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theyithianOffline
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PostPosted: 13-05-2011 11:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it does, but indirectly.

It of course influences who I think is doing a good job. That said, that's not a party specific judgement. If we were discussing a Labour, Tory, or other MPs I admire (and there are still a few from most parties), I'd view any similar actions in a similar light.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 13-05-2011 13:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, it does, but indirectly.

It of course influences who I think is doing a good job. That said, that's not a party specific judgement. If we were discussing a Labour, Tory, or other MPs I admire (and there are still a few from most parties), I'd view any similar actions in a similar light.


To be clear: an MP you dislike should be subject to expulsion from the Commons and possible criminal sanctions for a similar offence, but Laws (and others of whom you approve) should receive no more than a slap on the wrist?
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theyithianOffline
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PostPosted: 13-05-2011 14:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, that's not what I meant. I tried be clear in my earlier post:

theyithian wrote:
I'm now at a fall-back position where given that so many will go unpunished, we may as well consider public utility as a silver-lining (though it be no moral mitigation).


That's to say that almost all of those who fraudulently claimed expenses should no longer be MPs, and a great many of them should also be facing criminal charges - not just the handful of scapegoats we've been offered.

As this is clearly not now going to happen, I think we may as well examine the redeeming qualities of those that we're stuck with. Just as the judge may consider the former character, work and lifestyle of a convicted criminal when sentencing, we may - given the daunting number of offenders - at least consider how good at their jobs the guilty parties are when passing our judgement - how much use they've been to those they claim to serve. I say 'may as well' because we are at the point where 'justice' has been passed up on with the near blanket amnesty of claims and repayment - any resolutions now are arbitrary not 'just'.

My latter clarification was simply to accept that we as human beings may disagree over the merits of each MP as we have independent minds.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 13-05-2011 14:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That's to say that almost all of those who fraudulently claimed expenses should no longer be MPs, and a great many of them should also be facing criminal charges - not just the handful of scapegoats we've been offered.


But there is a huge difference between those who claimed expenses in accordance with the rules of the time - even if those rules were overly lax or ineffectively policed - and those who lied about their expenditure or circumstances in order to claim money which was not permitted even under the generous system in place at the time. The majority I would argue fell into the former category, and it is wrong to lump them in with the fraudulent minority. Laws' case however is most squarely in the latter. The apparent inability of media and public to distinguish between the two remains baffling IMO.

I reiterate: I don't think many people, good character or not, would get away with a week's suspension for defrauding their employer of sixty grand.
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 06-09-2011 09:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sorry saga finally approaches the end:

Final MP under expenses investigation 'to be charged today'
The final MP still under investigation over the alleged abuse of parliamentary expenses is set to be told today that she is to face criminal charges, the Daily Telegraph understands.
By Robert Winnett, Mark Hughes
6:00AM BST 06 Sep 2011

Detectives investigating Margaret Moran, the former Labour Member for Luton South, handed a file to prosecutors in December last year.
But a decision on whether to prosecute was held up amid Miss Moran’s claims of ill health. She repeatedly said she was too ill to be interviewed by detectives.
Now, it is understood, prosecutors have decided to charge Miss Moran. The Crown Prosecution Service will announce their decision at 11am today.

The decision comes more than two years after the Daily Telegraph revealed details of several MPs who had made illegal claims on their expenses.
Many of those investigated have since been convicted, imprisoned and released in the time it has taken prosecutors to decide to charge her.

The criminal investigation into Miss Moran came after she was exposed by The Daily Telegraph for repeatedly “flipping” her designated second home.
She made expenses claims for at least three different properties, in London, Luton and Southampton, over a four-year period.

Miss Moran claimed more than £20,000 for the treatment of dry rot at the Southampton home – almost 100 miles from either her constituency or Westminster.
In total she claimed more than £98,000 in second home expenses between 2004 and 2009.

Last night a CPS spokesman said: “We have completed our review of a file of evidence in relation to Margaret Moran’s claims for parliamentary expenses. Our decision will be announced tomorrow morning.”

David Chaytor, the first MP jailed over the expenses scandal, spent a quarter of his 18 month sentence in prison before being released earlier this year.
Eric Illsley, Elliot Morley and Jime Devine have all also received prison sentences over the expenses scandal. All were jailed earlier this year and have since been released.
Peers Lord Taylor of Warwick and Lord Hanningfield were also jailed over the expenses scandal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8743285/Final-MP-under-expenses-investigation-to-be-charged-today.html
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Mal_ContentOffline
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PostPosted: 06-09-2011 18:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame a broken society
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titchOffline
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PostPosted: 06-09-2011 20:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame Grand theft auto n rap music.
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BlackRiverFallsOffline
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PostPosted: 06-09-2011 22:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

and don't forget Marilyn Manson.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 07-09-2011 13:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackRiverFalls wrote:
and don't forget Marilyn Manson.


& LadyGaga
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 07-09-2011 14:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously, only very rich people should be allowed to become MPs. That way there will be less risk of them being tempted to fiddle their expenses. Plus, the very rich (or, 'wealth creators' as we must now call them), can also use the excuse that they have so much money, they just forgot when a few thousand got caught between their fingernails.

Luckily the Tory Party are now well on their way to putting, 'wealth creators' back in charge of the country, like in the good old days. The only thing that worries them now, is serious things like the devaluing of the Swiss franc and the effect it might have on their offshore assets.

For the 'wealth creators', happy days may soon be here, again:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/sep/07/george-osborne-urged-scrap-50p-tax
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 21-10-2012 08:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go again:

Newspaper review: Fresh focus on MPs' expenses

There is fresh focus on MPs' expenses, with the Sunday Telegraph reporting more than 180 MPs are enjoying first-class rail travel on the taxpayer.
It says they are exploiting a loophole in the rules allowing them to buy a first-class ticket if cheaper than the anytime standard fare for short notice journeys.

The Mail on Sunday says Ed Miliband has been branded a hypocrite because he mocked George Osborne for travelling first class on Friday but many of those exploiting the loophole are Labour MPs.

The claims about rail travel are just the latest in a growing list of new controversies about expenses.

The Sunday Mirror says a Tory MP is claiming money for staying in a hotel near a flat which he rents out -- it concludes the expenses system "urgently needs to be looked at again".

The Sun highlights a Labour MP who it says claims rent for a flat while he lets out a property he owns nearby.
"Is it any wonder the public are so cynical about politicians?", it asks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20020101

Rolling Eyes
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 21-10-2012 12:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

If theres a loophole and its cheaper than normal travel then perhaps we should all calm down, close the loophole and be happy in the knowledge that the public will sometimes have to pay more for MPs to travel economy than first class. I think this is just stirring it.

The rented properties is far more important an issue to deal with.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 21-10-2012 14:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here and say that I think MPs should be allowed to travel first class on trains - at least on long journeys. Senior civil servants are permitted to do so as are people of reasonable seniority in most private sector organisations. It is difficult if not impossible to work in a crowded standard class carriage.

We either accept that being an MP is an important and serious job and should be seen at least as on a par with senior civil servants and private sector middle managers or we buy into the media hysteria and end up with fewer and fewer good quality candidates and more and more political hacks and rich hobbyists.

Osborne's apparent attempt to get a free upgrade is ludicrous if course, but the Mail's attack on Miliband is barrel scrapingly pathetic. If a first class ticket is cheaper than the standard equivalent what's the problem?
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 02-11-2012 15:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

MP's expenses: Denis MacShane faces 12-month suspension

Former Labour minister Denis MacShane is facing suspension from the Commons for 12 months.
A Parliamentary committee found he had submitted 19 false invoices which were "plainly intended to deceive" Parliament's expenses authority.
The committee said it was the "gravest case" which has come to them for adjudication.
Mr MacShane, who has been suspended from the Labour Party, said he was "shocked and saddened" by the move.

The committee's report described Mr MacShane's false claims as "far from what would be acceptable in any walk of life" and "fell far below the standards of integrity and probity expected of every member of the House".
It also criticised the MP for Rotherham for failing to co-operate with the inquiry.

The false invoices related to work Mr MacShane carried out in Europe, an area for which he previously had ministerial responsibility.
Between 2004 and 2008, he submitted 19 invoices totalling £12,900 for "research and translation" work carried out by the European Policy Institute.

But the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards found the claims also covered travel, subsistence, hospitality and the purchase of books and other publications and were broad estimates of what the MP judged he had spent, rather than receipted items.
He also found that the European Policy Institute, in the way it was presented on the invoice - with a general manager and directors - did not exist.
The organisation was a "loose network", with no office, no salaried staff and with a bank account controlled by Mr MacShane himself.
And the signature on the invoices purporting to be from the institute' s general manager was, in fact, from Mr MacShane.

The commissioner said: "The sum claimed was not a sum determined by the general manager of the EPI... it was the sum of money entered on his computer by Mr MacShane himself.
"In effect, he was sending the invoice to himself and writing his own cheque." Shocked

The "real mischief" of Mr MacShane's actions, the commissioner added, was submitting invoices that bypassed the "checks and controls" of the House and "enabled Mr MacShane to spend public money as he thought fit".

The MPs suggested of the £12,900 of claims he made it was likely around £7,500 were "outside the rules", although Mr MacShane has repaid the entire £12,900.
Mr MacShane was also criticised for "excessive" claims for computer equipment, which MPs are allowed to claim for to support their parliamentary work.
In one instance the commissioner found he had allowed an intern to take a publicly-funded laptop away at the end of their internship, and bought a new one for his next intern. He also claimed for the same computer twice.

In a statement on his website, Mr MacShane said: "Clearly I deeply regret that the way I chose to be reimbursed for costs related to my work in Europe and in combating anti-semitism, including being the prime minister's personal envoy, has been judged so harshly.
"I remain committed to work for progressive values, for Britain playing a full part in Europe, and for combating anti-semitism even though I can no longer undertake this work as a Labour MP.

"I am consulting family and friends as I consider my position and study the full implications of the report.
"I am obviously desperately sorry for any embarrassment I have caused my beloved Labour Party and its leader Ed Miliband whom I greatly admire."

Mr MacShane had been suspended from the Labour party while police investigated his expenses claims, but he had the whip reinstated when the criminal inquiry was dropped in July.

A Labour Party spokesperson said: "These are very serious findings concerning Denis MacShane and we accept his statement this morning that his career as a Labour MP is effectively over.
"In the light of the report's recommendations to the House the Labour Party has suspended Denis MacShane with immediate effect, pending a full NEC enquiry.
"We will be talking to Denis MacShane about his future and the best course of action for him and for his constituency."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-20178332
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 02-11-2012 15:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank goodness so many Tories are independently wealthy, offshored and don't feel the need to fiddle their expenses for a few piffling thousands of pounds, they've got real money.
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