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Britain - Police State? II
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YithianOffline
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PostPosted: 04-11-2013 15:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

rynner2 wrote:
Leicestershire Police criticised after disciplining schoolboy who flicked elastic band at another boy
Mother says her son was left in tears when two officers turned up at their home while the family were watching X Factor.


Harsh but fair.

They have to be taught at a young age that television programes like these are simply not acceptable.
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Ronson8Offline
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PostPosted: 04-11-2013 15:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's true.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 04-11-2013 16:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the poor sole was traumatised by an elastic band, I hate to think what horrors life may through at him in future.


Indeed, but as I say I doubt very much that the elastic band was the only issue here.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 04-11-2013 21:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quake42 wrote:
Quote:
If the poor sole was traumatised by an elastic band, I hate to think what horrors life may through at him in future.


Indeed, but as I say I doubt very much that the elastic band was the only issue here.


Yeah, if it was then it would be a waste of police time. I suspect the band was the straw that broke the camels back.
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JamesWhiteheadOffline
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PostPosted: 14-11-2013 14:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Police Recruitment of Informants at Cambridge.
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 14-11-2013 15:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesWhitehead wrote:
Police Recruitment of Informants at Cambridge.

rofl, but not in a good way.
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JamesWhiteheadOffline
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PostPosted: 14-11-2013 16:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scrolling down to the Comments, I had to laugh at this by a poster called newlaplandes, quoting from the recruiter first:

"You might go to a UK Uncut or Unite Against Fascism meeting one evening, you might get say £30 just for your time and effort for doing that."

Nice of the state to put a price on that. Where do I send my claim form?

Smile
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 15-11-2013 10:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fairness I don't think there's anything particularly new here - police have infiltrated protest groups for hundreds of years. I can also see why UAF in particular might be of interest as their demonstrations frequently turn nasty.

The 30 quid payment leaves a nasty taste in the mouth though.
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jimv1Offline
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PostPosted: 15-11-2013 10:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quake42 wrote:
In fairness I don't think there's anything particularly new here - police have infiltrated protest groups for hundreds of years.


What is new thing is that they're asking for facebook links so there's a huge pool of innocent people apart from those who attend legal meetings who come under police suspicion by association. Also in asking about vehicles they use and index numbers, we're talking about the police being able to turn away vehicles from getting to legal demonstrations.

What must be really galling for the police in this case is they haven't got anyone capable of infiltrating and then inciting and stirring things up.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 15-11-2013 12:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is new thing is that they're asking for facebook links so there's a huge pool of innocent people apart from those who attend legal meetings who come under police suspicion by association. Also in asking about vehicles they use and index numbers, we're talking about the police being able to turn away vehicles from getting to legal demonstrations.



The social media stuff is new but the turning away of vehicles on the basis of suspeicion etc is not as we saw during the Miners' Strike and in the heyday of early 90s rave parties etc. I'm not a fan of it but I take issue with the idea that this is some brand new development.

I'm also not sure there's anything inherently wrong with the police taking an interest in groups which may be legal but which are known to engage in violence, intimidation or significant disruption. I think it is reasonable to take an interest in Islamist groups for example, but also fringe environmental groups that attempt to disrupt power supplies or civil aviation.

I also wonder how many of those who object to infiltration of UAF, for example, might be supportive of infiltration (or even plain outright banning) of groups like the EDL?
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 15-11-2013 13:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

All very reminiscent of the good old days of the DDR's Stasi. Which we've all been encouraged to laugh at recently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23986385

I wonder what the going rate was for being an informer in the old Deutsche Democratische Republiek?
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 15-11-2013 13:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trouble is that you get "mission creep" and the police can end up infiltrating any group which opposes government policy.

There was a time when at least some of the police were happy to allow anti-fascist militants to "deal" with fascists. Thses were fascists who were indulging in street violence.

The same has been true of the Garda in Ireland. When it suited them to have Italian financed fascists "taken care of" the Special Branch literally turned around and went away.

But this also depends on a maturity on the part of the Anti-Fascists to distinguish between a violent fascist and someone who just holds far right opinions; between someone who attacks immigrants and someone who is just opposed to immigration.

Sadly the SWP dominated UAF does not seem to be capable of making the important distinctions and therefore every demo is part of an existential struggle for survival. But they don't control hotheads present, neither do they organise proper defense in case they are attacked.


Last edited by ramonmercado on 15-11-2013 13:46; edited 1 time in total
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 15-11-2013 13:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
The trouble is that you get "mission creep" and the police can end up infiltrating any group which opposes government policy.

...

If the video is any indication, then they certainly seem to cast their net very far and wide, these days.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 15-11-2013 13:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sadly the SWP dominated UAF does not seem to be capable of making the important distinctions and therefore every demo is part of an existential struggle for survival.


Quite - and the UAF is also quite happy to get into bed with far right Islamists and even have them in their governance structure. I'd have a lot more time for the UAF if it spent some of its time opposing the Islamofascists and, for example, protecting gays and unhijabed women in East London. Can't see that happening somehow, the SWP mob would rather live out their Cable Street fantasies bashing EDL supporters.

Quote:
The trouble is that you get "mission creep" and the police can end up infiltrating any group which opposes government policy.



Indeed - but again, nothing terribly new about this. I'll confess though that I'm not hugely concerned about the odd copper wasting his time infiltrating groups that pose no threat to law and order provided that this is all they do. Acting as agents provocateur
Quote:
however is a different matter.
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 15-11-2013 14:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

More signs that, in the UK, the veneer of democracy continues to fade.
Quote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/councils-to-be-given-powers-to-ban-peaceful-protests-that-might-disturb-local-residents-8940535.html

Councils to be given powers to ban peaceful protests that might disturb local residents

Anger mounts at ‘shockingly open-ended’ Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill that could also see youngsters banned from skateboarding, forbid teenagers from using local parks and prevent demonstrators from gathering outside council offices

The Independent. Nigel Morris. 15 November 2013


Peaceful protests could be outlawed on the sole grounds that they might annoy nearby residents under contentious new powers being granted to councils, campaign groups warn.

The “shockingly open-ended” orders could also be used to ban youngsters from skateboarding, forbid teenagers from using local parks and prevent demonstrators from gathering outside council offices, it has been claimed.

The powers are contained within a little-noticed section of the Government’s Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill, which is currently going through Parliament.

The new public spaces protection orders (PSPOs) are intended to give town halls the authority to tackle drinking, aggressive begging, and dog-fouling, in specified areas. The Home Office said it would stop public spaces being turned into “no-go zones”.

But campaigners claim that the legislation is so loosely worded that the new powers could be used to stifle legitimate demonstrations and criminalise youngsters.

They raised the alarm on the 30th anniversary of the women’s peace camp being set up at Greenham Common in Berkshire, which critics claimed was the sort of protest that could be thwarted by the new powers.

Concerns about the illiberal nature of some of the Bill’s provisions centre on plans to establish PSPOs, which are replacing alcohol-control zones, dog-control orders and gating orders as well as local by-laws.

They can be used by councils, following consultation with police, to restrict any activity deemed to have a “detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality”.

The vague wording, and the failure to define the size of the areas to be covered, has led to fears they could be deployed to impose blanket bans on lawful activities.

People falling foul of the new restrictions would then be punished with on-the-spot fines, which could be issued by private security guards working on commission for councils.

The orders, which would last for up to three years, would be directed at “all persons or only to persons in specified categories”, a stipulation that has raised fears that certain groups – such as trade unionists or rough sleepers – could be discriminated against.

They could, for instance, be used to ban young or homeless people from a park.

The scheme appears driven by the Government’s commitment to a “localism” agenda and its determination to reduce the bureaucracy facing town halls.

The Home Office’s risk assessment of the measure acknowledged it could increase pressure on police, courts and prisons, but said the impact could be mitigated by the use of on-the-spot fines.

Peers are planning an attempt next week to amend the plans as they scrutinise the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill.

Josie Appleton, the convener of the civil-liberties group the Manifesto Club, said: “This Bill has shockingly open-ended powers within it that could allow councils to ban everything from protests, to outdoor public meetings, to children’s skateboarding. The list is endless.

“The Home Office say they don’t think councils will use the law in this way, but this is not good enough. They should not be handing councils open-ended powers in the first place.

“While people will have the right to appeal, the processes involved are so expensive and complex that they will be beyond the reach of most protest groups.”

Isabella Sankey, the policy director for Liberty, said: “These next-generation antisocial-behaviour powers are bigger and badder than ever.

“Dangerously broad powers granted to regulate the ‘quality of life’ of the community will allow local authorities effectively to shut down activity in public places. Just like stop-and-search without suspicion, the collateral damage will be peaceful protest and other basic rights and freedoms.”

Janet Davis, the senior policy officer at the Ramblers Association, said she was worried that the orders could be applied to areas traditionally used for leisure and recreation.

“They could be used on wide-open areas, they could be used on commons, any land to which the public has access,” she said.

But Norman Baker, the minister responsible for crime prevention, said: “The Coalition Government is simplifying the complex array of antisocial powers introduced by the last government.

“This power will make it easier to stop the behaviour of those who act antisocially, turning our public spaces into no-go zones.

“It is not aimed at restricting legitimate users, such as walkers, whose activities are in fact better protected by this power than by the restrictive gating orders it replaces.

“Local authorities will consult ahead of putting an order in place and those affected will be able to appeal if they feel the order is not valid.

Protests that might never have been…

    * Activists from Occupy London set up camp in October 2011 outside St Paul’s Cathedral to protest against corporate greed in the City and inequalities. Bailiffs moved in to clear the site the following February.

    * The late anti-war protester Brian Haw first pitched his tent outside the Houses of Parliament in 2001 as Britain joined military action in Afghanistan. He was rapidly joined by large numbers of sympathisers, who remained for another two years after his death in 2011.

    * Climate-change campaigners organised an eight-day-long protest in 2007 against airport expansion outside Heathrow. Similar demonstrations were mounted at Stansted airport, Essex.
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