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Posted: 31-05-2002 07:12 Post subject: Life from Space?

This page details lab experiments that show that amino acids, essential building blocks of proteins, and hence essential for 'life as we know it', can be created in interstellar gas clouds.

Thus these compunds should be widespread through space, and be incorporated into planetary systems and comets, meaning that it is likely that life in the universe is the rule rather than the exception.

I find it interesting how quickly this idea is becoming the current scientific paradigm. 20 years ago it was only scientists on the fringe, often mocked as crackpots, who favoured such ideas, but now it seems they're coming in from the cold.

And those interstellar gas clouds are cold! (It's ultraviolet radiation that facilitates the chemical reactions that produce the amino acids.)

Posted: 31-05-2002 13:10 Post subject:

I've always had a problem with "look...basic building blocks, I'll bet that leads to life". The reality is that amino acids are rather low energy and so are quite stable and easy to form [they are also relatively easy to detect at low levels, humans also go looking for them], the tricky bit is putting the blocks together to form a self replicating system. [From the evidence on Earth the simple bit seems to be making single celled organisms and the tricky bit is forming multi-cellular life and sexually reproducing systems]

There is a really good book by Prof. Cairn-Smith (republished about two years ago, the title was something like 7 essays on evolution) which suggests that all life on earth is evolved from clay. He presents a good argument. He also dismisses the panspermia theory as merely relocating the problem of the creation of life to another planet but does not dismiss it as the source of life on earth. I've met Prof. Cairn-Smith a few times, nice guy and have quizzed him on "why, if this type of life is so readily formed, do we not see it today?" his answer was "it was out evolved".

From my own point of view given that life evolved on earth almost as soon as there was liquid water I would say that life is almost certainly very widespread in the universe. Given the amount of time (3 billion years) that it stayed at the slime stage before evolving into multi-celled life (625 million years ago), I don't think much of the life we encounter in the future will be very "Star Trek".

Posted: 31-05-2002 15:28 Post subject:

Would we actually recognise the clay based life as life? It may still be there, doing its thing in the deep trenches. By the time it was brought up yto the surface, it would be mud again, such life needing low turbulence

8¬)

Posted: 13-06-2002 22:37 Post subject: Re: Life from Space?

Posted: 14-06-2002 06:16 Post subject:

That story was included in BBC TV news last night, Wastrel.

They helpfully added a graphic showing the position of 55 Cnc in relation to last night's new moon. I wonder how many people looked at the sky, saw Venus, and got all excited! (55 Cnc is supposedly rather dim - but I can't find it in SkyMap Pro!)

Later: I did find it, underanother name:

Names and Catalog Numbers

Bayer Letter: rho 1 Cancri
Flamsteed Number: 55 Cancri
PPM Catalog Number: PPM 99117

Position and Magnitude

Magnitude: 5.95

Position information for 12 Jun 2002 21:24:38
(Julian day number 2452438.35044)

Apparent RA (epoch of date): 08h 52m 42.39s
Apparent Dec (epoch of date): +28° 19' 29.2"

(I bet you really needed to know all that!)
And a big kiss from rynner for anyone who could see that star at all in the summer twilight - which should put off a whole generation from astronomy!

Posted: 01-07-2002 16:14 Post subject:

Posted: 01-07-2002 18:24 Post subject:

Posted: 02-07-2002 08:46 Post subject:

Indeed it was. I felt the term 'clay based' was substantially correct, since the self replicating part of 'cell' ('organo-crytal' is probably more accurate in this case) production relies entirely on the clays crystaline abilities and water, not chemical replication as it does in wholly organic animals. Any life forms of this sort would probably be laminal and of a 'colony' type, like lichens are in our organic world, and due to the nature of their replicating substrate, prey to turblent flow. Fascinating thought, though, if the therory were correct, that somewhere in the deep, still, cold trenches, they could be down there, doing the same thing as the have since just after the seas became seas

8¬)

Posted: 02-07-2002 18:04 Post subject:

Whatever happened to the hunt for the good, old fashioned silicon based life forms?
I want my talking crystals god dammit!

Posted: 02-07-2002 18:19 Post subject:

Harl,
Fair point. I guess it would be akin to bringing up a deep deep ocean critter. Once removed from its environment all we would get would be mush. I wonder if there is any simple way to look for evidence of literally clay based life in-situ. confused

Posted: 03-07-2002 18:38 Post subject:

Could there be intelligent life deep underground? Far fetched yes, but an interesting thought. They might know that there's a surface to the planet, but couldn't imagine any life here, with such low pressure and negligable (to them) atmosphere. We would be as ghosts to them. Psychout

Posted: 10-07-2002 14:23 Post subject:

Another planet discovered here.

Posted: 22-08-2002 18:45 Post subject:

New research shows that clouds of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons existed before the formation of the solar system.

PAHs can easily form other pre-biotic chemicals, so the implication is that if most planets in the universe were seeded with PAHs then life could be a widespread phenomenon.

New Scientist article

Posted: 22-08-2002 19:07 Post subject:

Posted: 22-08-2002 19:32 Post subject: