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Posted: 09-09-2009 09:29 Post subject: No 50, Berkeley Square - Original Story?

For the last few months I have been researching the history of No. 50, Berkeley Square - better known to Victorian Londoners as the home of the 'Nameless Horror.' I'm not looking for ghosts in the traditional sense but have been collecting materials for an article about the development of the story, which (from what I have found in various periodicals and newspapers throughout the 1870's) seems to have been a very complex case of Chinese whispers.

The earliest story attached to the house - that of the maid who went out of her mind, and the gentlemen found dead after spending a night in the haunted room - had its origin in a story written by Rhoda Broughton in Temple Bar Magazine, Feb 1868. For those of you who are interested the story can be found here: http://www.horrormasters.com/Text/a0426.pdf.

When contacted by a reader of Notes & Queries in 1881, Miss Broughton replied that she had been told the story about a house in the country, and had transported the action to London (although her story does not give the exact location of the house) in order to protect the identity of the informant.

My question is, has anyone come across a ghost story similar to the one at Berkeley Square, but set in the countryside, that might have inspired Miss Broughton? The only clue I have so far is that she was born in Denbigh, North Wales, and in 1866/7 paid a visit to her uncle, Sheridan Le Fanu in Dublin.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreiciated!

Eva

Posted: 09-09-2009 09:45 Post subject:

At the end of Le Fanu's, An Account of Some Strange Disturbances in Aungier Street, the maid and her mother retell a couple of old stories about the house which, if I recall correctly, include people dying of fright or going mad after having spent the night in a particular room. Obviously it's not a rural setting, and the motif isn't exactly uncommon to ghost stories, but the mention of Le Fanu makes me wonder if they hadn't maybe taken inspiration from a common source, or if maybe Miss Broughton had been inspired by her uncle's tale.

Posted: 09-09-2009 10:15 Post subject:

Hi Eva

I can't remember where (might have been on tis board) but I recently read a version of the "...and if I ring again come quickly" story set in Edinburgh. If it come sback to me or I find it I'll post it up.

Meantime there was a brief discussion about 50 Berkeley Square HERE .

Old Time Radio wrote an article about it for FATE magazine but alas I never got to see it. If he was around or contactable he might be able to assist your research.

mooks out

Posted: 09-09-2009 12:33 Post subject:

The version I've found in a cheap Scottish Ghosts book I've got doesn't have a source for the story but claims it happened at the turn of the century.

It was at number 17, though the street name isn't given it's place it in a row of terraced house close to the Botanical gardens, now demolished.

Same stpry, horrible thing frightens servant girl. Rumour spreads, no sailors in this version but a student of Edinburgh University, Andrew Muir, elects to spend the night there with a spiritual interest in what's occurring. They give a bell, go to bed, wake up hearing the bell. Andrew Muir dead with look of horror.

Don't know if that helps you at all.

It also gets a mention near the bottom of this page. It's University student Andrew Muir again but tis time it's the turn of the 20th century.

Posted: 09-09-2009 13:50 Post subject:

I'm currently at work so have only had a brief opportunity to look through your replies.

Not sure about the Le Fanu story. As you said, deadly rooms are a common motif in ghost stories, and it doesn't have the structure of Rhoda Broughton's story ~ although her close relationship with Le Fanu (I believe he actively encouraged her writing and saw to it that some of her early work was published) suggests that she might have had this story in mind, if only subconsciously, when writing 'The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth'.

The second story, set in Edinburgh, is much more striking in its similarity! Do you know when your book of Scottish ghost stories was published? I've had a quick look but can't find anything about the haunted boarding house before 1868, when Miss Broughton's story was published. If this story did inspire her own, it would have had to be in the public domain before this time. It could have worked the other way around - i.e. the Berkeley Square story inspiring that of the haunted boarding house?

It's still a great story, though, and one that I hadn't come across before. I suppose it would be possible to contact The University of Edinburgh to see if they did have a student called Andrew Muir during WW1 / 1920's, although something tells me that Muir is a fairly popular Scottish surname!

I'll have a proper look when I get home tonight - thanks both for your replies!

Eva

Posted: 09-09-2009 17:38 Post subject:

Posted: 09-09-2009 20:41 Post subject:

Ummm. For a recent conference, this location was the subject of my proposed presentation - it's supposed reputation, reality and origin but concentrating on it's reason for existence.
I think I can say I've done a fair bit of research. I was even in the middle of presenting my findings and conclusion to "tout" to the FT for publication.

I admit, I've not found a direct parallel in other legends - then again, I've not actually looked to other cities. However, the Berkley Square Horror story - in it's many guises - comprises of so many elements of folk tale, ghost myth and extrapolation that echoes of it might exist elsewhere. Especially during the high period of Gothic Horror.

Posted: 11-09-2009 11:04 Post subject:

Still no luck in finding an early source for the Edinburgh story; I have a feeling (given the mention of WW1) that it is derived from the Berkeley Square story rather than it being the other way around, although I won't get a chance to go to the library until this weekened, so have had to rely on googlebooks over the last few days.

Don't know whether I can face a trawl through Blackwood's magazine tomorrow! Already have the rate books and London Directories waiting for me. It would make my life a lot easier if the tax collectors of the late 18th / early 19th century had seen fit to record house numbers! For someone who highly doubts No. 50 Berkeley Square was ever haunted, I have been getting an eerie feeling during the course of my research that the house is trying very hard to keep its remaining secrets.
Stormkhan, you're under no obligation to answer this (sworn enemies now, after all) but have you found any references to a haunted house in Berkeley Square before 1871 in the printed media? The earliest I have is a letter of 1871, with the specific house number not being being given given until 1872 (Lord Lyttelton, responding to a question in Notes & Queries.) All I know is that it had gained the reputation by 1863/64...

You don't have to tell me your source if you have - but it would give me renewed hope that it's out there somewhere Wink

To set your mind at rest I wasn't planning on submitting my proposal to Fortean Times, but I thought this message board would be a good place to start the hunt for the inspiration for Miss Broughton's story, as it does comprise a huge chunk of the Berkeley Square legend.

Eva

Posted: 12-09-2009 17:37 Post subject:

So far, I've found no paranormal references to number 50 pre-1872. One of the most "famous" elements of the story - the three sailors terrified, one jumping to his death, impaled on the railings below - is a real non-starter. I think the morning sight of a Jolly Jack Tar oozing over a Mayfair railing might've come to the notice of even the most jaded copper at the time, let alone the paperboy or the milkman.

Posted: 13-09-2009 11:34 Post subject:

I was digging around for an online version of MR James A School Story, which I know contains a reference to the Berkeley Square story, when I stumbled across this article on Rosemary Pardoe's excellent Ghosts and Scholars website.

For someone researching the story it probably doesn't reveal anything that they don't already know, but I thought it was worth posting, if only - for those who aren't already familiar with it - as an introduction to a great site.

Posted: 14-09-2009 20:35 Post subject:

I can't offer insights into any possibly factual origins for the story, but will merely mention that several of William Hope Hodgson's 'Carnacki the Ghost-Finder' tales, mostly published in The Idler in the period 1910-12, are variations on the overall theme, though each has its particular fascinating details.

Posted: 27-09-2009 20:45 Post subject:

Completely irrelevant, I know, but I've just read, in Ed Glinert's West End Chronicles, that another property on Berkeley Square is supposed to be haunted by two generals who 'died precipitately when they fell through a trapdoor arguing about how the Duke of Marlborough should have fought the Battle of Blenheim', which, for some reason, made me laugh out loud. (Another example of a tragic and futile waste of life - I mean, the Duke of Marlborough won the Battle of Blenheim).

More trivia. Admiral Byng famously executed pour l'encourager les autres, lived at Number 40, and Clive of India died of Laudanum poisoning at 45. Number 53 is supposed to have the ghost of a heartbroken father who peers out of a first floor window pining for his eloped daughter. (Source for that is Peter Bushell's London's Secret History). And Thackery, in Vanity Fair, describes a Berkeley Square 'in which gloomy locality death seems to reign perpetual.'

Posted: 28-09-2009 22:14 Post subject:

The location of Berkley Square, per se, isn't indicative of death, Fortean or otherwise.
You must remember that this area was of the wealthy - and the military - for decades! Each door can reveal a "noble" passing or a violent end. Even only at first remove.

Posted: 28-09-2009 22:29 Post subject: