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The Falklands
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 12-03-2013 07:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falklands referendum: Voters choose to remain UK territory

The people of the Falkland Islands have voted overwhelmingly in favour of remaining a UK overseas territory.
Of 1,517 votes cast in the two-day referendum - on a turnout of more than 90% - 1,513 were in favour, while just three votes were against.
It follows pressure from Argentina over its claims to the islands, 31 years after the Falklands War with the UK.

The UK government welcomed the result and urged "all countries" to accept it and respect the islanders' wishes.
The referendum had asked: "Do you wish the Falkland Islands to retain their current political status as an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom?"
There was a turnout of more than 90% from 1,672 British citizens eligible to vote in a population of about 2,900.

Nigel Haywood, governor of the Falkland Islands, said: "Obviously it is a major principle of the United Nations that a people have their right to self-determination, and you don't get a much clearer expression of the people's self-determination than such a large turnout and such a large 'yes' vote."

Dick Sawle, a member of the island's legislative assembly, said it was an "absolutely phenomenal result which will send out the strongest possible message to the rest of the world about our right to self-determination - a right that was fought for in 1982, and which we have honoured tonight."

Islanders had "very, very clearly said they wish to remain as a British overseas territory with those rights", he said, and it would "be our job now as a government to get that message out to the rest of the world and every country that will listen to us".
He added: "What is very clear is that these islands never have belonged to Argentina; what is also extremely clear to me here, and from the results that we heard tonight, is that they never will do."

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said: "We have always been clear that we believe in the rights of the Falklands people to determine their own futures and to decide on the path they wish to take. It is only right that, in the 21st Century, these rights are respected.
"All countries should accept the results of this referendum and support the Falkland islanders as they continue to develop their home and their economy. I wish them every success in doing so."

Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner has maintained that the Falkland islanders' wishes are not relevant in what is a territorial issue.
Most Argentines regard the islands, which they call Las Malvinas, as Argentine and their recovery is enshrined in the national constitution.

Journalist Celina Andreassi, of the Argentina Independent, said: "The majority of people here agree with the official position that the issue is not about self-determination and it is not about whether the islanders consider themselves British or not - because obviously everyone knows that they do and that they are British.
"The issue for most people here is whether the territory is Argentine or British, not the people themselves."

Carolina Barros, editor of the Buenos Aires Herald, said the referendum result was "quite a blow and big news for any Argentine saying that the Malvinas islands belong to Argentina, or that the islanders living there are an implanted population".
"I don't think it's going to change the mind of the government," she said. "It might change the mind of the Argentines.
"Most of the Argentines think that the territory, the land, belongs to the Argentine map. But most of the Argentines, I think, think that the islanders are entitled to believe or feel themselves like the true inhabitants of the islands after almost nine generations."

Election observers from different countries oversaw the vote, including representatives of Chile and Mexico - despite an Argentine request for Latin American countries not to take part.

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21750909

1,513 + 3 = 1,516, not 1,517 - was one ballot paper spoiled? I think we should be told!
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Ronson8Offline
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PostPosted: 12-03-2013 10:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested to know why 3 people voted against, possibly married to Argentinians.
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YithianOffline
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PostPosted: 12-03-2013 13:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

More likely those hoping for complete independence from both nations - a nascent movement, apparently.
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Anome_Offline
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PostPosted: 12-03-2013 16:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if there's only one member, that would be pretty nascent.
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SpookdaddyOffline
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PostPosted: 12-03-2013 18:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

As is sometimes the case with newspaper reports it's the information that's almost treated as throwaway that's often most interesting.

I mean, I - like, I suspect, everyone else - am entirely unsurprised by the result of the referendum, but I do find it interesting that representatives from Chile, an associate member of Mercosur, were involved in an operation that Argentina, one of Mercosur's founding member states, specifically requested it not to be involved in.

It may of course be that those representatives and their involvement had not been sanctioned by the Chilean authorities - it would be interesting to know.
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Ronson8Offline
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PostPosted: 12-03-2013 22:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Chile supported the UK against Argentina during the conflict.
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SpookdaddyOffline
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PostPosted: 13-03-2013 07:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronson8 wrote:
Of course Chile supported the UK against Argentina during the conflict.


These days it's often forgotten that four years before the Falklands conflict Argentina had only aborted an invasion of Chile with a few hours to spare, and that the 1982 invasion of the islands - which was supposed to be a cakewalk as no-one (including the Americans) thought the British would bother putting up a fight - was seen by many as a dry run for a conflict with Chile. Galtieri went as far as to warn Chile via the press that this was the case.

I can't find a direct link to that Perfil interview just now, although I'm pretty sure I've provided one earlier in the thread - but the following, from what is possibly a susprising source, refers to the matter:

Quote:
Chile was next target after Falklands in 1982, admits Argentine Brigadier

The last Argentine dictatorship headed by General Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri had plans to attack Chile following the invasion and recovery of the disputed Falklands/Malvinas Islands in 1982 revealed on Sunday the former chief of the Argentine Air Force at the time, Brigadier Basilio Lami Dozo....


Source.
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 13-03-2013 08:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falkland islands referendum: who were the three 'No' votes?
The Falkland islands referendum returned an overwhelming 'Yes' vote. But who were the trio that voted 'No'? Neil Tweedie reports from Port Stanley.
By Neil Tweedie, Port Stanley
7:35PM GMT 12 Mar 2013

After the victory - the speculation.
So who exactly are the 'Falklands Three', the trio of dissenters who voted 'No' to the Falkland Islands remaining as an overseas territory of the United Kingdom?

That was the inevitable subject of conversation in Port Stanley, together with satisfaction at the resounding victory for the Yes-vote in a referendum on the future of the territory. Of 1,518 votes cast during the two-day poll, 1,513 came out in favour of maintaining the islands' current political status, representing 99.8 per cent of the vote. One ballot paper was rejected and one remained unaccounted for after the count on Monday night. That left three people who desire either immediate independence from Britain or a transfer of sovereignty, presumably to Argentina, which claims the islands as its own.

Stanley is a small place – the entire Falklands enjoy a population of only 2,900 permanent and guest residents – and most things do not remain secret for long, but a secret ballot is a secret ballot.

"There will be some people who will do their best to find out," says John Fowler of the islands' newspaper, Penguin News. "I hope they don't succeed because those three people added a certain validity to the whole exercise."

Just as impressive as the Yes-vote was the turnout in the referendum, organised by the Falkland Islands Government in response to renewed pressure from Argentina. Of the 1,649 islanders eligible to vote, 92 per cent did so, blowing away concerns that a display of apathy might result in the referendum backfiring.

etc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9925693/Falkland-islands-referendum-who-were-the-three-No-votes.html
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 13-03-2013 19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

And after another vote...

Argentina's Bergoglio elected Pope

Now the Falklanders will be threatened with excommunication too! Shocked
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 13-03-2013 23:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

rynner2 wrote:
And after another vote...

Argentina's Bergoglio elected Pope

Now the Falklanders will be threatened with excommunication too! Shocked


The swine collaborated with the junta.

Quote:
The sins of the Argentinian church
The Catholic church was complicit in dreadful crimes in Argentina. Now it has a chance to repent
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/jan/04/argenitina-videla-bergoglio-repentance
Hugh O'Shaughnessy
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 4 January 2011 08.20 GMT
Jump to comments (161)

Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, the archbishop of Buenos Aires. Photograph: Natacha Pisarenko/AP

Benedict XVI gave us words of great comfort and encouragement in the message he delivered on Christmas Eve.

"God anticipates us again and again in unexpected ways," the pope said. "He does not cease to search for us, to raise us up as often as we might need. He does not abandon the lost sheep in the wilderness into which it had strayed. God does not allow himself to be confounded by our sin. Again and again he begins afresh with us".

If these words comforted and encouraged me they will surely have done the same for leaders of the church in Argentina, among many others. To the judicious and fair-minded outsider it has been clear for years that the upper reaches of the Argentinian church contained many "lost sheep in the wilderness", men who had communed and supported the unspeakably brutal western-supported military dictatorship that seized power in that country in 1976 and battened on it for years. Not only did the generals slaughter thousands unjustly, often dropping them out of aeroplanes over the River Plate and selling off their orphan children to the highest bidder, they also murdered at least two bishops and many priests. Yet even the execution of other men of the cloth did nothing to shake the support of senior clerics, including representatives of the Holy See, for the criminality of their leader General Jorge Rafael Videla and his minions.

As it happens, in the week before Christmas in the city of Córdoba Videla and some of his military and police cohorts were convicted by their country's courts of the murder of 31 people between April and October 1976, a small fraction of the killings they were responsible for. The convictions brought life sentences for some of the military. These were not to be served, as has often been the case in Argentina and neighbouring Chile, in comfy armed forces retirement homes but in common prisons. Unsurprisingly there was dancing in the city's streets when the judge announced the sentences.

What one did not hear from any senior member of the Argentinian hierarchy was any expression of regret for the church's collaboration and in these crimes. The extent of the church's complicity in the dark deeds was excellently set out by Horacio Verbitsky, one of Argentina's most notable journalists, in his book El Silencio (Silence). He recounts how the Argentinian navy with the connivance of Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, now the Jesuit archbishop of Buenos Aires, hid from a visiting delegation of the Inter-American Human Rights Commission the dictatorship's political prisoners. Bergoglio was hiding them in nothing less than his holiday home in an island called El Silencio in the River Plate. The most shaming thing for the church is that in such circumstances Bergoglio's name was allowed to go forward in the ballot to chose the successor of John Paul II. What scandal would not have ensued if the first pope ever to be elected from the continent of America had been revealed as an accessory to murder and false imprisonment

One would have thought that the Argentinian bishops would have seized the opportunity to call for pardon for themselves and put on sackcloth and ashes as the sentences were announced in Córdoba but that has not so far happened.

But happily Their Eminences have just been given another chance to express contrition. Next month the convicted murderer Videla will be arraigned for his part in the killing of Enrique Angelelli, bishop of the Andean diocese of La Rioja and a supporter of the cause of poorer Argentinians. He was run off the highway by a hit squad of the Videla régime and killed on 4th August 1976 shortly after Videla's putsch.

Cardinal Bergoglio has plenty of time to be measured for a suit of sackcloth – perhaps tailored in a suitable clerical grey – to be worn when the church authorities are called into the witness box by the investigating judge in the Angelelli case. Ashes will be readily available if the records of the Argentinian bishops' many disingenuous and outrightly mendacious statements about Videla and Angelelli are burned.
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drbatesOffline
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PostPosted: 14-03-2013 19:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just recomission a Harrier and drop it into St Peters Square.

That'll focus his mind is he's thinking of getting political Very Happy

Of have the Vulcan do daily low-level flyovers...you can't ignore that sort of thing...
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 15-03-2013 01:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

drbates wrote:
Just recomission a Harrier and drop it into St Peters Square.

That'll focus his mind is he's thinking of getting political Very Happy

Of have the Vulcan do daily low-level flyovers...you can't ignore that sort of thing...


Hmmm, a few things not available anymore.
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Zilch5Offline
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PostPosted: 15-03-2013 03:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
rynner2 wrote:
And after another vote...

Argentina's Bergoglio elected Pope

Now the Falklanders will be threatened with excommunication too! Shocked


The swine collaborated with the junta.


I think this needs to be treated with caution at the moment. There are claims and counter-claims at the moment. Perhaps - until more evidence surfaces - it should be he "allegedly collaborated with the junta".

The presumption of innocence still applies here, I think.
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drbatesOffline
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PostPosted: 15-03-2013 19:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
drbates wrote:
Just recomission a Harrier and drop it into St Peters Square.

That'll focus his mind is he's thinking of getting political Very Happy

Of have the Vulcan do daily low-level flyovers...you can't ignore that sort of thing...


Hmmm, a few things not available anymore.


Vulcan still flying, Americans have Harriers now. So do we, in museums.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 15-03-2013 20:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

drbates wrote:
ramonmercado wrote:
drbates wrote:
Just recomission a Harrier and drop it into St Peters Square.

That'll focus his mind is he's thinking of getting political Very Happy

Of have the Vulcan do daily low-level flyovers...you can't ignore that sort of thing...


Hmmm, a few things not available anymore.


Vulcan still flying, Americans have Harriers now. So do we, in museums.


Glad to hear the Vulcan is still in action, I thought it had been retired. I volunteer for suicide mission attack on Vatican. I'll ride the bomb down like Slim Pickens in Dr Strangelove. Yee-har!
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