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The Falklands
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 15-03-2013 20:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zilch5 wrote:
ramonmercado wrote:
rynner2 wrote:
And after another vote...

Argentina's Bergoglio elected Pope

Now the Falklanders will be threatened with excommunication too! Shocked


The swine collaborated with the junta.


I think this needs to be treated with caution at the moment. There are claims and counter-claims at the moment. Perhaps - until more evidence surfaces - it should be he "allegedly collaborated with the junta".

The presumption of innocence still applies here, I think.


Evidence keeps emerging. But in any case the Jesuit Provincial (Frankie) kept his mouth shut when members of his order were disappeared. And theres more. Its not going away.

Quote:
Dark days of Argentine dictatorship still hide many secrets
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/bergoglio-s-links-to-military-rule-still-raising-questions-1.1326330
Tom Hennigan


For a Catholic leadership reeling from paedophile and financial scandals, the elevation of Buenos Aires cardinal Jorge Bergoglio to the papacy is loaded with risk.

Argentina is still coming to terms with the legacy of the military’s brutal rule between 1976- 83, when more than 10,000 people were murdered in a dirty war against what the generals saw as left-wing subversion.

The role of the church hierarchy during those dark years has long caused fierce debate, which, since his elevation to the archdiocese of Buenos Aires in 1998, has often come to focus on the role of Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis.

As the country’s leading Jesuit during the military’s rule, Bergoglio, like most church leaders, failed to speak out against the military’s systematic violation of human rights. That failure was widespread among his generation. Human rights activists though have made more serious charges against him.

The gravest is that he withdrew his protection from two young Jesuit priests after they refused his order to stop working in a shanty town in Buenos Aires. Inspired by the Latin-American church’s liberation theology with its call to get closer to the poor, Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics were working with a group of young church activists evangelising and starting literacy programmes in the slum of Belén–Bethlehem.

However the military equated such work with subversion. Yorio later claimed that when Bergoglio withdrew his protection, it acted as a green light for the military to detain them in May 1976. They were held for five months, but several lay Catholic activists who worked with them were swept up in the operation and never seen again.

Bergoglio insisted to his biographer he only told the two priests to quit the slum for their safety and worked hard to get them released. He did not say if he worked for the release of the youth workers held with them.

Yorio, who died in 2000, claimed that during his disappearance, Bergoglio contacted his family to say he had been executed. Fr Jalics, the second priest who was kidnapped, has never spoken publicly about Bergoglio since his release.

Investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky, in his 2005 book The Silence , examined the Argen tinian church’s links to the dictatorship. Verbitsky has gone so far as to say Bergoglio’s complicity even included letting the military use the Jesuit headquarters as a clandestine base.

Bergoglio says in fact it harboured dissidents and dismisses Verbitsky’s claims as those of an author trying to sell books.

In 2010 Bergoglio appeared before a court investigating the case of babies born to detainees which were then secretly adopted by pro-military families once the mother was killed.

He said he had only become aware of such cases some time between 1985 and 1990, but his claim is disputed by the family of Elena de la Cuadra. She was one of five members of her family to die during the dictatorship and was five months pregnant when she disappeared in 1977.

Her parents had sought the church’s help in locating her.

The family claims that Bergoglio told Elena’s father that his daughter had given birth to a daughter and “the child is being raised by a good family, the situation of Elena is irreversible”.

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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 16-03-2013 08:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Cameron tells Pope Francis white smoke over Falklands was clear
David Cameron has publicly clashed with the new Pope over the Argentine pontiff’s claim that Britain “usurped” the Falkland Islands.
By Tim Ross, Brussels
3:28PM GMT 15 Mar 2013

Pope Francis, who is a former Archbishop of Buenos Aires, has previously described the disputed territory as belonging to “the homeland” of Argentina.
However, the Prime Minister told him he should “respect” the islanders’ referendum vote for the Falklands to remain British.
Mr Cameron even dared to make a joke at the expense of the Vatican’s ancient election processes.
"The white smoke over the Falklands was pretty clear,” he said.

His comments, at a press conference at the European Council summit in Brussels, follow the islanders’ referendum that delivered an overwhelming majority in favour of the Falklands remaining a UK overseas territory.

Pope Francis, who is the first to be chosen from South America to lead Roman Catholics around the world, has already placed on record his belief that “Las Malvinas” are Argentine.
Last year, at a Mass at Buenos Aires for the 30th anniversary of the 1982 Falklands War, the future Pope told worshippers: “We come to pray for all who have fallen, sons of the homeland who went out to defend their mother, the homeland, and to reclaim what is theirs, that is of the homeland, and it was usurped.”

Asked at a press conference in Brussels whether he agreed with Pope Francis on the issue of the Falklands, Mr Cameron said: “I don't agree with him - respectfully, obviously.
“There was a pretty extraordinarily clear referendum in the Falkland Islands and I think that is a message to everyone in the world that the people of these islands have chosen very clearly the future they want and that choice should be respected by everyone.
“As it were, the white smoke over the Falklands was pretty clear.”

The world first learnt that the conclave of cardinals had chosen a new Pope this week through the traditional signal of white smoke rising from a stovepipe chimney in the roof of the Sistine Chapel.
British sources insisted that Mr Cameron was not intending to be disrespectful to the Pope or the Vatican.

Argentina has used the election of the new Pope to renew international pressure for talks over the future of the disputed territory.
Cristina Kirchner, the president of Argentina, has already attempted to recruit the new Pope in her campaign to take control of the Falklands.
In a thinly-veiled reference to the long-running dispute, she called on the pontiff to persuade “major world powers” to engage in “dialogue”
.

The islands in the South Atlantic have been British territory since 1833 but are also claimed by Argentina, which calls them the Malvinas.
In the referendum last week, only three votes were opposed to the Falklands remaining a British overseas territory, against 1,513 who voted in favour.

After the vote, Britain urged “all countries” to accept the result and respect the islanders’ views.
President Kirchner maintains that the wishes of the islanders are not relevant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9932873/David-Cameron-tells-Pope-Francis-white-smoke-over-Falklands-was-clear.html
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YithianOffline
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PostPosted: 16-03-2013 10:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

He clearly said it before some Italians made him infalliable.

Had the quotation been put to me rather than Cameron, I would have pointed out that we in England have enjoyed a glorious history of almost five hundred years of ignoring the pope's witterings.


Last edited by Yithian on 16-03-2013 11:48; edited 1 time in total
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 16-03-2013 10:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a pesky pope that started all this, as I posted here in March 2010:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=958348#958348

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Argentina says it has a right to the islands because it inherited them from the Spanish crown in the early 1800s.

The Spanish claim presumably descends from this:

"Inter caetera ("Among other [works]") was a papal bull issued by Pope Alexander VI on 4 May 1493, which granted to Spain (the Crowns of Castile and Aragon) all lands to the "west and south" of a pole-to-pole line 100 leagues west and south of any of the islands of the Azores or the Cape Verde Islands.[1]

It remains unclear to the present whether the pope was issuing a "donation" of sovereignty or a feudal infeodation or investiture. Differing interpretations have been argued since the bull was issued, with some arguing that it was only meant to transform the possession and occupation of land into lawful sovereignty. Others, including the Spanish crown and the conquistadores, interpreted it in the widest possible sense, deducing that it gave Spain full political sovereignty.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter_caetera
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 16-03-2013 11:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

theyithian wrote:
He clearly said it before some Italians made him infalliable.

Had the quotation been put to me rather than Cameron, I would have pointed out that we in England have enjoyed a glorious history of almost five-hundred years of ignoring the pope's witterings.


Why doesn't FTMB have a Like button?
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Ronson8Online
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PostPosted: 16-03-2013 12:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

theyithian wrote:
He clearly said it before some Italians made him infalliable.

Had the quotation been put to me rather than Cameron, I would have pointed out that we in England have enjoyed a glorious history of almost five hundred years of ignoring the pope's witterings.

Like!
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AnalisOffline
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PostPosted: 16-03-2013 21:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

rynner2 wrote:
David Cameron tells Pope Francis white smoke over Falklands was clear
David Cameron has publicly clashed with the new Pope over the Argentine pontiff’s claim that Britain “usurped” the Falkland Islands.
By Tim Ross, Brussels
3:28PM GMT 15 Mar 2013

Pope Francis, who is a former Archbishop of Buenos Aires, has previously described the disputed territory as belonging to “the homeland” of Argentina.
However, the Prime Minister told him he should “respect” the islanders’ referendum vote for the Falklands to remain British.
Mr Cameron even dared to make a joke at the expense of the Vatican’s ancient election processes.
"The white smoke over the Falklands was pretty clear,” he said.


And what does the white smoke over Diego Garcia say ? Bloody hypocrit bastard.
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Ronson8Online
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PostPosted: 16-03-2013 23:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analis wrote:


And what does the white smoke over Diego Garcia say ? Bloody hypocrit bastard.
Yep have to agree with you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depopulation_of_Chagossians_from_the_Chagos_Archipelago
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 20-10-2013 09:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

A long article, but interesting to Argentina watchers:

'Queen Cristina' facing the end of her reign
Politically weakened and physically frail, Argentina's president Cristina Fernandez Kirchner is facing the end of a decade of a family rule as she recovers from brain clot surgery ahead of key elections

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/10390654/Queen-Cristina-facing-the-end-of-her-reign.html
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 29-11-2013 08:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argentine threat over Falkland Islands oil operations

Argentina has threatened oil businesses operating off the Falkland Islands with fines, confiscations and jail sentences for their executives.
Argentina's embassy in London said new laws had been passed by the country's congress to clamp down on exploration it claims is in breach of UN decisions.

The UK's Foreign Office insisted the activities were legitimately controlled by the islands' government.
Islanders recently voted overwhelmingly to remain a British overseas territory.

The embassy said legislation "provides for prison sentences for the duration of up to 15 years; fines equivalent to the value of 1.5 million barrels of oil; the banning of individuals and companies from operating in Argentina; and the confiscation of equipment and any hydrocarbons that would have been illegally extracted".

It said in a statement: "The Argentine government has protested against and rejected all of the United Kingdom's attempts to promote and authorize such hydrocarbon exploration and exploitation activities in the area of the Argentine continental shelf.
"These attempts are manifestly contrary to Resolution 31/49 of the United Nations General Assembly, which requires the UK and Argentina to refrain from taking decisions that would imply introducing unilateral modifications into the situation of the Malvinas Islands while the sovereignty dispute between the two countries is still pending."

In a referendum in March, Falkland Islanders decided by 1,513 votes to three to remain a UK overseas territory but Argentina - which calls the islands the Malvinas - has stepped up its claims to them at the United Nations.

A Foreign Office spokesman said: "Hydrocarbons activities by any company operating on the continental shelf of the Falkland Islands are regulated by legislation of the Falkland Islands government, in strict accordance with the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea.
"As such these activities are wholly legitimate and legal. The UK government unequivocally supports the right of the Falkland Islanders to develop their natural resources for their own economic benefit.
"This right is an integral part of their right of self-determination, which is expressly contained in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

"Argentine domestic law does not apply to the Falkland Islands or South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, which are UK overseas territories."

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25149096
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MythopoeikaOffline
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PostPosted: 29-11-2013 21:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very silly.
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PostPosted: 05-01-2014 13:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How A Punk Band Fooled MI6, Scared Margaret Thatcher And Almost Caused A Diplomatic Incident

Previously classified documents reveal how a spoof punk recording baffled the UK and US security services during the early 1980s.

Official documents released today reveal that a spoof recording made by anarchist punk band Crass resulted in MI6 informing Margaret Thatcher that they may have uncovered a new form of Soviet propaganda campaign.

Crass – known for releases such as “Nagasaki Nightmare” and “Penis Envy” – undertook a variety of anti-establishment protests during the late 1970s and early 1980s.

None were more successfully subversive as when, in 1982, the band spliced together recordings of British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and US President Ronald Reagan to make it sound as though they were arguing over the Falklands War and discussing the possibility of launching nuclear weapons at Germany.

Crass then posted the tape to Dutch newspapers, who swiftly dismissed it as a fake. But a few months later the US State Department got hold of a copy and loudly proclaimed it to be an example of underhand Soviet Union propaganda.

Official UK government documents, declassified for the first time today, show that Margaret Thatcher was kept updated on the incident by the Foreign Office. The papers also suggest that MI6, the CIA and the US State Department were in communication with each other regarding the tape for up to two years.

A Foreign Office official first wrote to Thatcher in 1983, warning the Prime Minister that the recording could be an Argentinian or Soviet intelligence operation designed to discredit her, according to one of the newly-released letters.

The embassy in Hague recently passed to London a tape recording of a purported telephone conversation between the Prime Minister and President Reagan during the Falklands crisis.

    This looks like a rather clumsy operation. We have no evidence so far about who is responsible. SIS [also known as MI6] doubt whether this is a Soviet operation. It is possible that one of the Argentine intelligence services might have been behind it; or alternatively it might be the work of left-wing groups in this country.

Then The Sunday Times ran a piece entitled “How the KGB fools the West’s press” based on a US State Department briefing about the tape. It blamed the Russian security services for the forgery.

    …journalists across the world have fallen for an increasing flow of such stories based on “authoritative” cables, memo and tapes. The State Department in Washington says they are all products of an increasingly sophisicated Russian campaign.

    “They have accelerated their efforts and they have fine-tuned them,” claims Larry Semakis, deputy director of a State Department team that monitors what the Russians call “active measures.” He admits that “no one can specifically prove in a court of law that Soviet hand was on this or that item.” But he says there is a pattern in the use of forgeries which points unmistakably to the Russians.

    The State Department believes that “active measures” are the responsibility of the KGB’s first directorate; that some forgeries go as high as the ruling Politburo for approval…

The newly-released letters reveal that Thatcher herself was concerned by the recording that Crass had made in their bedroom.

The Prime Minister even sought advice from the foreign secretary and home secretary as to whether she should discuss the tape in an interview on the BBC’s Panorama.

BuzzFeed phoned former Crass singer Steve Ignorant – now a volunteer lifeboatman in Norfolk – to tell him that the 1982 spoof tape had been discussed at high levels of government in both Washington DC and London.
This is what he said:

    It makes me a bit worried about governments because if they could be fooled by something so ridiculous… well, someone told us that there was an MI5 dossier on us but we didn’t take it that seriously.

    I’m quite stunned [the recording] went that far.

    [Bass player Pete Wright] just vanished upstairs one day with a load of little cassette tapes and – with a razor blade and sellotape – was slicing together stuff that he’d recorded off a black and white portable TV that we couldn’t tune in properly.

    Just as a joke he had it sent to Europe and sent back to various newspapers from Belgium. We didn’t think for a second people would take it seriously. But obviously people did.

Full story:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/how-an-anarchist-punk-band-almost-caused-a-cold-war-diplomat

Quote:
PENNY RIMBAUD ON HOW CRASS NEARLY STARTED WORLD WAR 3

Official government documents have just been released regarding one of the best things ever done by the only real punk band ever, Crass.

Basically, in 1982, when the rest of punk had started playing sax, Crass created this piece of subversive décollage, splicing together recordings of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan to create a fake phone call between the conservative übermenschen.

Here's Crass founder Penny Rimbaud explaining the whole story to VICE back in 2004:

    "We wanted to come up with something which might get rid of Thatcher. It was just after the Falklands charade, when she was about to get re-elected. We were told something we knew could seriously dent the Thatcher Empire. Allegedly, the Navy had allowed HMS Sheffield to be blown out of the water by not informing them that an incoming Exocet missile had been picked up on the radar. The other three boats in the grouping were informed and took defensive action. Why? Because one of the ships was the Invincible and on board was Prince Andrew. Given that the information was classified, we decided the only way to make it public was to fake a telephone conversation between Thatcher and Reagan.

    "We edited bits and pieces from speeches made by the two of them, creating a conversation which included all the details of the Sheffield. We then sent out tapes to all the major European newspapers, but nothing happened. Thatcher was re-elected, but then, six months down the line, the US State Department announced that they were in possession of KGB tapes 'produced to destroy democracy as we know it'.

    "It soon became obvious that it was our tape they were talking about. It was frightening. A bunch of anarchist jokers sparking off a world war? Anyway, the same KGB story eventually broke in the British press and it wasn't long before The Observer got in touch with us, asking whether we knew anything about the tapes. It was unbelievable. The whole operation had been carried out in absolute secrecy, but somehow or other they'd managed to pin it onto us. After a gruelling day of negotiations, we agreed to admit responsibility if they would print the Sheffield details in their article, which, true to their word, they did.

    "We did our best to expose the story but even now it's an issue which has never really been given full and proper investigation."

Yesterday, official documents were released about the case. They're not wildly revelatory, but they do prove that Margaret Thatcher spent at least a small part of 1983 reading about Crass. Something she has in common with most of the 45-year-old punks you see throwing their cider cans at Pret a Manger in Kentish Town.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/penny-rambaud-on-how-crass-nearly-started
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 12-04-2014 07:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same old, same old...

12 April 2014 Last updated at 05:03
UK Falklands military exercises 'provoke' Argentina

Britain has been accused of provoking Argentina with plans to hold military exercises in the Falkland Islands.
Argentina said next week's drills would include missile launches and were part of a "pattern" of "hostile acts".

The British ambassador in Buenos Aires has been summoned by Argentina's deputy foreign minister, who will protest over the "new show of military force".
Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner has called the islands "Nato's military base" in the region.
Argentina claims the islands, which are known to it as Las Malvinas.

It said the UK planned to conduct the exercises on "occupied Argentine territory" between 14 and 27 April.
A spokesman for the Argentine embassy in London added: "This action is a new example of UK's disregard for United Nations resolutions, which call on both parties to resume negotiations over sovereignty and refrain from introducing unilateral modifications in the situation as long as the dispute persists."

Islanders voted by 1,513 to three to remain a British overseas territory in a referendum last year.
UK Prime Minister David Cameron said at the time that the result "could not have sent a clearer message".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26999735
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