Forums

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages 
Osama Bin Laden Dead
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 19, 20, 21  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Conspiracy - The War on Terror
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AnalisOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Total posts: 920
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 13-05-2011 13:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry_B wrote:

Quote:
Unless you suggest that now that AQ had chosen this path, Iranis intend to spread confusion and discord among Sunnis ?


No, I wasn't saying that either. That said, the Iranians may have their own reasons for taking part in the way recent events are being discussed.


Yes, they may have their own reasons.
That's the main problem we have when we discuss motives for Al Qaeda (if they're the real thing) or any other party. We may imagine many plausible rationales for their actions or non-actions. What they "should" do, how they would react... Some assert that Al Qaeda would expose that OBL was already dead if this was true ; others don't understand that they didn't claim that he was dead even if it was not true etc... Some facts can be used to support one stance or its contrary.

Until we get hard evidence, the wisest thing to do would be to present our speculations for what they are : mere speculations.

McAvennie_ wrote:
Sorry, but someone had to do it... Laughing


There's also the problem of OBL's left-handedness.

For the record, the Gaspar Llamazares scandal :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8463657.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34894217/ns/world_news-europe/t/spaniards-photo-used-bin-laden-poster/
When the FBI was stupid enough to use the photo of a Spanish lawmaker to produce fake OBL pictures.


Last edited by Analis on 07-10-2011 14:14; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile 
MythopoeikaOffline
I am a meat popsicle
Joined: 18 Sep 2001
Total posts: 10452
Location: Not far from Bedford
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 13-05-2011 13:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analis wrote:
There's also the problem of OBL's left-handedness.


Not sure that is particularly important.
Myself, I'm right-handed, but I occasionally use the remote in my left hand.
Back to top
View user's profile 
ted_bloody_maulOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 23 May 2003
Total posts: 4877
Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 13-05-2011 14:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analis wrote:
For the record, the Gaspar Llamazares scandal :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8463657.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34894217/ns/world_news-europe/t/spaniards-photo-used-bin-laden-poster/
When the FBI was stupid enough to use the photo of a Spanish lawmaker to produce fake OBL pictures.


I think it's over-egging the conspiracy pudding just a touch to label them 'fake'.
Back to top
View user's profile 
ramonmercadoOnline
Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Total posts: 20662
Location: Dublin
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 03-05-2012 23:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr O'Sama might have won over the Irish.

Quote:
Al-Qaeda sought to convert the Irish
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0503/breaking53.html
CHARLIE TAYLOR

Thu, May 03, 2012

Osama bin Laden was urged by a fellow leading al-Qaeda member to send a message to the Irish people persuading them to support Islam.

According to new declassified documents seized from his hideout in Pakistan following his death last year, bin Laden was advised that there was a possibility of converting Irish people because of their disenchantment with the Catholic Church and anger over the economic crisis.

Among the reasons outlined as to why the Irish might be open to Islam were Irish people's sympathy towards Palestinians and "the soft treatment of the judicial system to Muslims accused of terrorist acts".

The Combating Terrorism Center, a privately funded research base at the US Military Academy at West Point, posted a number of declassified documents belonging to bin Laden on its website today.

They were taken in the raid on his house in Abbottabad last May in which he was killed by US forces.

The documents, which total 175 pages in the original Arabic and 197 pages in the English translation, span a period from September 2006 to April 2011 and include private letters between prominent al-Qaeda members including bin Laden.



Among the documents is a letter from the American al-Qaeda spokesman Adam Gadahn to an unknown recipient in January 2011 which lays out reasons for reaching out to the Irish people.

The document, which highlights the reasons for issuing a call to the Irish people notes that Ireland was not a participant in "Bush's Crusade wars," but also adds that the country had been part of an EU-wide force engaged in training the Somali army.

It also speculates on the impact of the clerical child abuse scandal and the economic crisis on Ireland.

"What helped to prepare the message was the last economic crisis that affected Ireland a lot, thus forcing its youth to look for sources of living in the outside," writes Mr Gadahn.

"The other matter is the increasing anger in Ireland towards the Catholic Church after exposing a number of sex scandals and others," he adds.

The document says that Irish people, "who were the most religious of atheist Europe," are moving towards secularism.

"Why do not we face them with Islam,?" asks Mr Gadahn.

He goes on to suggest preparing a similar message to Catholics living in Arab regions calling them to Islam and cautioning them against co-operating with "invader enemies."

"Catholics were historically the prominent enemies of the Jews, amongst the other Christians. They were also the original enemies to the Evangelist Protestant who were the vanguard of the Crusades.”

“ Their public in general, these days, is more sympathetic and understanding of the Muslims, than other Protestant and Orthodox Christians," he says.
Back to top
View user's profile 
jacolanternOffline
what candle?
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Total posts: 131
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 04-05-2012 14:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote/above
They were also the original enemies to the Evangelist Protestant who were the vanguard of the Crusades.”
eh? am i just reading this wrong, or do they get their facts off the back of a cornflake packet?
Back to top
View user's profile 
ramonmercadoOnline
Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Total posts: 20662
Location: Dublin
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 04-05-2012 19:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacolantern wrote:
Quote/above
They were also the original enemies to the Evangelist Protestant who were the vanguard of the Crusades.”
eh? am i just reading this wrong, or do they get their facts off the back of a cornflake packet?


Probably loses something in translation.
Back to top
View user's profile 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 04-05-2012 21:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's always the possibility that these, 'Al Quaeda papers', are in fact black ops fakes, intended to smear and discredit various targets, convenient to US intelligence interests.

Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile 
ramonmercadoOnline
Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Total posts: 20662
Location: Dublin
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 04-05-2012 22:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
There's always the possibility that these, 'Al Quaeda papers', are in fact black ops fakes, intended to smear and discredit various targets, convenient to US intelligence interests.

Laughing


Its a load of shi'ite.
Back to top
View user's profile 
Pietro_Mercurios
Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 04-05-2012 22:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
Pietro_Mercurios wrote:
There's always the possibility that these, 'Al Quaeda papers', are in fact black ops fakes, intended to smear and discredit various targets, convenient to US intelligence interests.

Laughing


Its a load of shi'ite.

Qu'ite. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile 
AngelAliceOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Total posts: 723
Location: marshy middle ground
Gender: Female
PostPosted: 23-05-2012 11:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole OBL thing has never made much sense has it. His family knew the Bush family. He apparently had links with the CIA. He also apparently had advanced kidney disease, but somehow survived without dialysis, living in a cave or something. His photos look curiously different from each other. Al Quaeda has itself been claimed to be a creation of western agencies, much like the Taliban. And indeed according to La Clinton, it's currently fighting on 'our side' in Syria.

Does anyone on either side have a clear idea what is really going on any more?
Back to top
View user's profile 
ramonmercadoOnline
Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Total posts: 20662
Location: Dublin
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 23-05-2012 11:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

AngelAlice wrote:
The whole OBL thing has never made much sense has it. His family knew the Bush family. He apparently had links with the CIA. He also apparently had advanced kidney disease, but somehow survived without dialysis, living in a cave or something. His photos look curiously different from each other. Al Quaeda has itself been claimed to be a creation of western agencies, much like the Taliban. And indeed according to La Clinton, it's currently fighting on 'our side' in Syria.

Does anyone on either side have a clear idea what is really going on any more?


The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Fundamentalists, including Al Qaeda, fighting to overthrow a secular regime are on "our" side.

Some of the leaders of the Syrian Fundamentalist Opposition have boasted of their intention to ethnically cleanse Christians, Alawis and other Shias'. from Syria. This does not seem to bother Hillary.

The caves in Tora Bora must be equipped like the Mayo Clinic.
Back to top
View user's profile 
ted_bloody_maulOffline
Great Old One
Joined: 23 May 2003
Total posts: 4877
Location: Quester's Psykick Dancehall
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 23-05-2012 12:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

AngelAlice wrote:
The whole OBL thing has never made much sense has it. His family knew the Bush family. He apparently had links with the CIA. He also apparently had advanced kidney disease, but somehow survived without dialysis, living in a cave or something. His photos look curiously different from each other. Al Quaeda has itself been claimed to be a creation of western agencies, much like the Taliban. And indeed according to La Clinton, it's currently fighting on 'our side' in Syria.

Does anyone on either side have a clear idea what is really going on any more?


Well, I guess someone on the other side has a pretty clear idea...
Back to top
View user's profile 
Zilch5Offline
Vogon Poet
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Total posts: 1580
Location: Western Sydney, Australia
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 05-10-2012 05:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the SEALs involved in the killing of OBL has now written a book about it - apparently non-sanctioned by the CIA. Some parts from a review in the New York REview of Books:

Quote:
Bissonnette continued up toward the third floor. There was another SEAL in front of him; he could not see around the point man very well. Near the top of the stairs, he heard the distinctive sound of firing from the lead SEAL’s rifle, which was equipped with a silencer. “The point man had seen a man peeking out of the door on the right side of the hallway…. I couldn’t tell from my position if the rounds hit the target or not. The man disappeared into the dark room.”

They went inside and found “two women standing over a man lying at the foot of a bed.” The man on the floor was bin Laden, although the SEALs did not know that for certain then, Bissonnette writes. He recounts how the attack ended:

The point man’s shots had entered the right side of [bin Laden’s] head. Blood and brains spilled out of the side of his skull. In his death throes, he was still twitching and convulsing. Another assaulter and I trained our lasers on his chest and fired several rounds. The bullets tore into him, slamming his body into the floor until he was motionless.

Bin Laden, then, was the third of three men the SEALs shot dead, or finished off, while they were lying on the floor. Perhaps al-Kuwaiti, Abrar, and bin Laden had been mortally wounded by the initial shots that struck them, but no effort was made to determine their prospects for survival. Bin Laden had stored a gun on a shelf nearby but it contained no ammunition; there has been no evidence that he tried to get hold of it; he was neither armed nor aggressive at the moment of his death.


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/oct/25/bin-laden-dead-or-alive/
Back to top
View user's profile 
Marco_PoloOffline
Grey
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total posts: 9
Gender: Unknown
PostPosted: 05-11-2012 01:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

SameOldVardoger wrote:
Another win for the west in their cruzades against the Middle East?
That's what the islamists are going to think and it will polarize the situation even further.
But he deserved it. Even if he wasn't responsible for 9/11, he is responsible for other terrorist acts against innocent people.


That seems like a general and vague statement.. But I'll take it.
Back to top
View user's profile 
rynner2Offline
What a Cad!
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Total posts: 25265
Location: Under the moon
Gender: Male
PostPosted: 22-11-2012 07:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osama bin Laden: Navy emails lift the lid on secret burial at sea
The first details of Osama bin Laden's secret burial at sea have been revealed in internal US military emails which show that no sailor witnessed the covert funeral.
3:06AM GMT 22 Nov 2012

The emails, which were heavily blacked out, also disclosed that Islamic rituals were observed in the lead-up to the burial, and revealed that bin Laden's body was referred to as a FedEx package.

The correspondence represents the first public disclosure of government records about the former al Qaeda leader's burial. They were released on Wednesday by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request by The Associated Press,

One email stamped secret and sent on May 2 by a senior Navy officer briefly describes how bin Laden's body was washed, wrapped in a white sheet, and then placed in a weighted bag.
According to another message from the Vinson's public affairs officer, only a small group of the ship's leadership was informed of the burial.

Bin Laden was killed on May 1, 2011, by a Navy SEAL team that assaulted his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. His body was carried out to sea by the USS Carl Vinson.

"Traditional procedures for Islamic burial was followed," the May 2 email from Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette reads. "The deceased's body was washed (ablution) then placed in a white sheet. The body was placed in a weighted bag.
"A military officer read prepared religious remarks, which were translated into Arabic by a native speaker. After the words were complete, the body was placed on a prepared flat board, tipped up, whereupon the deceased's body slid into the sea."

The email also included a cryptic reference to the intense secrecy surrounding the mission. "The paucity of documentary evidence in our possession is a reflection of the emphasis placed on operational security during the execution of this phase of the operation," Admiral Gaouette's message reads.
Recipients of the email included Admiral Mike Mullen, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and General James Mattis, the top officer at US Central Command. Admiral Mullen retired from the military in September 2011.

Earlier, Admiral Gaouette, then the deputy commander of the Navy's Fifth Fleet, and another officer used code words to discuss whether the helicopters carrying the SEALs and bin Laden's body had arrived on the Vinson.
"Any news on the package for us?" he asked Rear Admiral Samuel Perez, commander of the carrier strike group that included the Vinson.
"FedEx delivered the package," Admiral Perez responded. "Both trucks are safely enroute home base."

Although the Obama administration has pledged to be the most transparent in American history, it is keeping a tight hold on materials related to the bin Laden raid.
In a response to separate requests from the AP for information about the mission, the Defense Department said in March that it could not locate any photographs or video taken during the raid or showing bin Laden's body.
It also said it could not find any images of bin Laden's body on the Vinson.

The Pentagon also said it could not find any death certificate, autopsy report or results of DNA identification tests for bin Laden, or any pre-raid materials discussing how the government planned to dispose of bin Laden's body if he were killed.

The Defense Department also refused to confirm or deny the existence of helicopter maintenance logs and reports about the performance of military gear used in the raid.
One of the stealth helicopters that carried the SEALs to Abbottabad crashed during the mission and its wreckage was left behind. People who lived near bin Laden's compound took photos of the disabled chopper.
The AP is appealing the Defense Department's decision.

The CIA, which ran the bin Laden raid and has special legal authority to keep information from ever being made public, has not responded to AP's request for records about the mission.

Source: AP

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/9694952/Osama-bin-Laden-US-Navy-emails-reveal-no-sailors-witnessed-secret-burial-at-sea.html
Back to top
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Fortean Times Message Board Forum Index -> Conspiracy - The War on Terror All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 19, 20, 21  Next
Page 20 of 21

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group