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Von Braun
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 20:35    Post subject: Von Braun Reply with quote

i understand he apeared on American telly (from the tom Lehrer song) and apeard a nice old bloke... i dont know anything about the mechanics of getting him to America...but from the BBC seem to say that he boasted about a rocket plane that could reach New York, and bomb it to bits..and he was a huge employer of slave labour and death camp prisoners.... Nice bloke working in extremis?.. nasty bastard with no regard for life?... whats the dril for employing nasty but usefull persons?..
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 20:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

sidecar_jon wrote:

...whats the dril for employing nasty but usefull persons?..

Full pardon, big salary, optimum working conditions, citizenship, prestige, and blanket assertions from the new employers that the nasty but useful person never did anything to actually need pardoned for when they were in their last post. Plus, for some reason, they get a box of paperclips apparently. confused
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 20:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems he sought out surender to the Americans as he thought the british would have put him on trail for war crimes and he didnt like the idea of "working" for the russians..
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 20:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zygon wrote:

for some reason, they get a box of paperclips apparently. confused


i sopose in the greater scheme of things... but from the tom lehere song americans hadnt forgoten what a prize bastard he was...
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Guest
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 20:48    Post subject: Re: Von Braun Reply with quote

sidecar_jon wrote:

whats the dril for employing nasty but usefull persons?..
It's the old Jesuit motto, apparently,
"If the ends are lawful, then the means are lawful."

Or, "The ends justify the means."

There's a real fun bit in Tom Wolfe's, "The Right Stuff" where Von Braun, or at least some of the rest of his Peenmunde kamerads, are all hanging around the piano in some nightclub, or bar singing old Nazi drinking songs.

Hmph

Of course, the Russians got the real rocket scientists.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 20:58    Post subject: Re: Re: Von Braun Reply with quote

AndroMan wrote:

There's a real fun bit in Tom Wolfe's, "The Right Stuff" where Von Braun, or at least some of the rest of his Peenmunde kamerads, are all hanging around the piano in some nightclub, or bar singing old Nazi drinking songs.

Hmph

Of course, the Russians got the real rocket scientists.


The Right Stuff ws the best film i have ever initialy been made to watch, i really enjoyed it...

I thought the Russians lost afew in a rocket acident?... im wonderignhow our American Posters see him?... and no thats not an abuse opertunity... not far from here nazi scientist of the worst ilk worked on Sarin...(with aparently a budget of 2 million pounds in 1948...this is when normal people coudlnt even buy petrol or new clouths cos of rationing)
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 21:02    Post subject: Re: Re: Von Braun Reply with quote

AndroMan wrote:

Of course, the Russians got the real rocket scientists.

Oh indeed. Ever see that documentary where the NASA guys went to see the old Kosmograd guys to look at their rocket designs, and discovered that some of their testbeds were bigger and more powerful than the American designers even thought was possible with current tech ...and the Russians weren't even using current tech -they simply went straight from theoretical principles to building the damn things, modifying the engines in line with what worked as they went along, not bothering to design the damn things beforehand at all.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 21:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah yes but it may be argued that the feeble rocket engines made the American scientists develop more sofisticated and lighter integrated cricits and therfore computers.... swings and roundabouts.
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Philo_TOffline
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PostPosted: 26-01-2004 21:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[b]im wonderignhow our American Posters see him?


http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/SMALL/GPN-2000-000060.jpg
Apparently they hired the best PR that money could buy.

My vote's on "NAZI fifth column". You know how those industrialists LOVED NAZIs!






bah. Bloody IMG tag isn't working for me.


Last edited by Philo_T on 26-01-2004 21:17; edited 1 time in total
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 26-01-2004 21:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

sidecar_jon wrote:

ah yes but it may be argued that the feeble rocket engines made the American scientists develop more sofisticated and lighter integrated cricits and therfore computers.... swings and roundabouts.

Not sure how the chronology of that works out, since the documentary in questions was mid-90s, long after the Space Race was over, and apparently the NASA guys (or they might've been JPL) had no idea before they saw the testbeds how powerful the Soviet-built engines were. Their faces were a picture, IIRC. (And it's not like American rockets were exactly 'feeble' either.) Smile
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gncxxOffline
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PostPosted: 26-01-2004 23:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I aim for the stars... but I hit London..."
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 27-01-2004 02:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

I chust send zem up
I don't care where zey come down
Unt I'm learning Chineze ...
says Werner Von Braun

I'm afraid to enter Tom Lehrer in amazon, I spend too much money there already.
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stonedog3
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PostPosted: 27-01-2004 03:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

two Gamewardens....

seven hunters....


Smile

Kath
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Anome_Offline
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PostPosted: 27-01-2004 05:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwood wrote:

I chust send zem up
I don't care where zey come down
Unt I'm learning Chineze ...
says Werner Von Braun/B]

A couple of confounded lines there:
"Vunce zey go up, who cares where they come down?
Zat's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

and
"In Cherman und Inglish, I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese..." says Wernher von Braun.

Or my favourite:
Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude should be one of grattitude,
Like the widows and orphans of old London Town,
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.


You have to keep in mind, that after the war it was seen as in the best interests of both the West and the Warsaw Pact to forgive the scientists in order to use their abilities in the Cold War.

George Orwell had something to say about it.
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dot23Offline
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PostPosted: 27-01-2004 10:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone interested in Von Braun and the V2 rocket must read "Gravity's Rainbow" by surrealist genius Thomas Pynchon. His VB is a man obsessed with learning the secrets of misslie flight, to the point that he doesn't recognise the inhuman conditions those working on the project are under.

I found a rather interesting piece on Immortality penned by the man himself:
Quote:
Why I Believe in Immortality
BY WERNHER VON BRAUN, INVENTOR AND SPACE EXPERT [I imagine he spoke in capital letters most of the time Wink dot23]

"I believe ... that the soul of Man is immortal and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this." --Benjamin Franklin

TODAY, more than ever before, our survival--yours and mine and our children's- depends on our adherence to ethical principles. Ethics alone will decide whether atomic energy will be an earthly blessing or the source of mankind's utter destruction.
Where does the desire for ethical action come from? What makes us want to be ethical? I believe there are two forces which move us. One is belief in a Last Judgment, when every one of us has to account for what we did with God's great gift of life on earth. The other is belief in an immortal soul, a soul which will cherish the award or suffer the penalty decreed in a final Judgment.

Belief in God and in immortality thus gives us the moral strength and the ethical guidance we need for virtually every action in our daily lives.

In our modern world many people seem to feel that science has somehow made such "religious ideas" untimely or old-fashioned.

But I think science has a real surprise for the skeptics. Science, for instance, tells us that nothing in nature, not even the tiniest particle, can disappear without a trace.

Think about that for a moment. Once you do, your thoughts about life will never be the same.

Science has found that nothing can disappear without a trace. Nature does not know extinction. All it knows is transformation!

Now, if God applies this fundamental principle to the most minute and insignificant parts of His universe, doesn't it make sense to assume that He applies it also to the masterpiece of His creation--the human soul? I think it does. And everything science has taught me--and continues to teach me--strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.
http://www.hyperarts.com/pynchon/gravity/index.html
and a few other links as well:
http://www.pynchon.pomona.edu/gr/index.html http://www.themodernword.com/pynchon/pynchon_gr.html
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