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The Yeti
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 18-10-2013 19:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kondoru wrote:
So we have a bear, a bear we don't know about....

...And we are told by some that the yeti is a bear who walks upright (like the bear in the kipling poem?)

Connection here?


Yes, these bears acted as agents for The Raj during The Great Game.

Kim, nudge nudge, Kim Philby.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 18-10-2013 19:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesWhitehead wrote:
ramonmercado wrote:
Yogi Bear walks erect.


Are we hinting at the Boo-Boo question? kissers


I always thought he secretly loved Ranger Smith.
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CochiseOffline
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PostPosted: 19-10-2013 09:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You can't illuminate myth with science.


Well, you can a bit. We have all sorts of myths about wolves and werewolves, but they wouldn't exist if there wasn't a wolf in the first place - or at least they'd take a different form.

So if there is a Yeti Bear, it does at least explain how the myths came to take the particular form they did, although I must admit I'd expected some kind of ape. But a bear could fit, although not quite as well. They do stand on their hind legs at times.
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oldroverOffline
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PostPosted: 19-10-2013 11:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I agree with you about the werewolf myth, see India were leopards, I'm not sure how much it relates to the Yeti question.

Firstly it's important to ask just how much we think we know about the idea of the yeti has been manufactured in the West, and what if any of our version is compatible with the version familiar to the people of that area. Not much I suspect.

Secondly as certain so-called artifacts, terms and images seem to suggest there's at least some sense among the locals that the yeti is man like, so it's probably safe to assume that it's related or comparable to the universal wild man myth. Albeit, as always, with certain culturally specific elements.

Thirdly what links these bear hairs with the Yeti in the first place? Obviously no ones going to find hair from a yeti so any sample they collect is going to be erroneous, they may just as well have taken serow hair again.

But just because it was bear hair that got picked up people are making the assumption that as as there seems to be an idea among some people that this may represent an unknown species, it won't it'll turn out to be from a Tibetan blue. And that as some bear traits could easily transfer across to, again our, version of the yeti that we've cleverly solved another puzzle.

We haven't, it's just like a Nepalese geneticist coming over here to investigate our idea of angels, finding some owl feathers and having the press announce that the great mystery has been solved; angels are owls. Missing the fact that like the yeti, the idea has a long history across several cultures, and plays a particular role in an early overview we humans have of nature rather than being sparked by encounters with any one species,in any one place.
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lordmongroveOffline
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PostPosted: 19-10-2013 12:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference is that angles are mythical, there is a good chance that the yeti is not. The witnesses i interview put no spiritual importance on the yeti. They all described it as a huge ape.
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lordmongroveOffline
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PostPosted: 19-10-2013 12:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Rover said...
"Far too much is being made of this, as if this is the first time the idea has been proposed. Some hairs, which have turned out to be very interesting in their own right, have been proposed to have been from a yeti but weren't. It says nothing for the identity of the yeti whatsoever."

He's exactly right.
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CochiseOffline
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PostPosted: 20-10-2013 09:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose another way to look at the report is that if there can be an unknown species (or subspecies) of bear living in the area, there could equally be an unknown species of ape. IOW, it undermines the oft-stated opinion that there could no longer be an undiscovered species of large mammal.

We of course in the West have a way of looking at things that is very much obsessed with classification. That may not be with the case with the people who pass down the spiritual legends connected with the Yeti.
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oldroverOffline
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PostPosted: 20-10-2013 19:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is suggesting that thee's an unknown species of bear in the Himalayas. It's much more likely to come from the scarcely known Tibetan Blue. I'm not sure if much, or any study, has been carried out into their DNA.
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oldroverOffline
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PostPosted: 20-10-2013 21:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently I'm wrong, again, it is being suggested that there's an atypical bear on the prowl.

Personally I'm not buying that idea as yet. Let's wait though for the forthcoming journal article.
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KondoruOffline
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PostPosted: 20-10-2013 22:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, how does it compare to the tibetian blue?
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oldroverOffline
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PostPosted: 21-10-2013 16:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is it, the Tibetan Blue along with the Mongolian brown bears, which may or not be the same sub species, are so bloody rare I don't know if anyone could answer that question.
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KondoruOffline
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PostPosted: 21-10-2013 17:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't the NHM have a sample to compare?
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oldroverOffline
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PostPosted: 21-10-2013 17:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure who's got what to be honest. It's not a well studied animals though.

Back in the 80's I'm not sure if anyone in the West had even seen a photo of one. I was amazed when I came across a snap of one in a zoo in Tibet (I think) on the internet. Of course things have moved on since then but still.
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PeripartOffline
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PostPosted: 23-10-2013 19:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
Yogi Bear walks erect.

I reckon you might be onto something there. Next time someone spots a yeti, they should be on the lookout for a collar and tie. No shirt, obviously - that would be silly.

I watched and really enjoyed the C4 documentary, more than I thought I would. Whatever you thought of the conclusions, the programme was not over-sensationalised, and approached things in a pretty scientific manner, with very level-headed presenters.

Just imagine if the same show had been on C5 - all recaps, flash-forwards, dodgy reconstructions, and about 5 minutes of facts.
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oldroverOffline
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PostPosted: 23-10-2013 20:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or worse imagine Mark Evans had been in 'A Car is Born' mode.
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