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drbatesOffline
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PostPosted: 08-04-2014 19:47    Post subject: Wall of Text Reply with quote

Can we get over this thing of pasting in entire articles from BBC news etc please?

It adds nothing to the discussion that a simple link couldn't, and its reached the point where on some threads you can't see the wood for the trees.

If you're REALLY that interested in the thread do some analysis, or give us a TL:DR or SOMETHING. Anyone else who is interested (especially in a mainstream story) will almost certainly have read the story on its mainstream, originating website anyway.

THIS http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28013&start=765 is a case in point...
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 08-04-2014 19:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

urls change. Fort collated stories, thats what some of us do here. The number of views that such threads get suggests that yours is not the majority opinion.

The thread which you have highlighted has 83361. Some people are not put off by full stories.
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drbatesOffline
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PostPosted: 08-04-2014 20:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
urls change. Fort collated stories, thats what some of us do here. The number of views that such threads get suggests that yours is not the majority opinion.

The thread which you have highlighted has 83361. Some people are not put off by full stories.


Doesn't mean anyone READ those stories - my hits count in that 83361, but when I got to that page I thought "Ah...Ramonmercado has been here, and filled the thread with post after post after post of stuff that has already been said somewhere else...again. Lets find something else more provoking to read"

At the moment its more like having a conversation with a Xerox machine than a person...Fort MIGHT have collated stories but he didn't insist everyone he spoke to read them all first...and to be fair I've only clocked you and renner2 doing this to any degree and you are the worst offender by a long way.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 08-04-2014 20:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the views speak for themselves. Peopole wouldn't keep coming back if they weren't interested.

Why not put just scroll past those posts or put me and Rynner on ignore?

83361 views suggests that Forteans find the posts interesting.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 08-04-2014 20:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some of the threads started by me and the number of views for each of them. People know my posting style yet they return.

How do the threads started by you compare?

Dinosaurs (& other saurs): New Findings & Theories. 65764

Doomsday fridge to store seeds that will rescue civilisation 2649

Halloween Hysteria 11590

Snakes 8788

Coffee News. 7297

Prisoners Killed for Organ Harvesting In China 4815

Death (suicide) in America 4996

Acupuncture 10703

China scandal: Is Bo Xilai victim of political dispute? 6228

US medical tests in Guatemala 'crime against humanity' 4071

Workers Party leader Sean Garland on fake cash charges 7497
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PeteByrdieOffline
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PostPosted: 08-04-2014 21:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I understand what the gripe is. If the webboard is happy to host the quotes, why should it bother the rest of us? I often don't bother following the link, and just read or scan the quote, especially if I'm on my smart phone (which I usually am) travelling in a van experiencing variable signal quality (which is frequently the case) because it saves loading another website that probably contains ads and pictures. I suggest anyone who doesn't feel the full quotes add anything refrain from reading them.
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stunevilleOffline
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PostPosted: 09-04-2014 06:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again it depends on context (it's always about context on here.)

As ramon rightly pointed out, pages and indeed whole sites do vanish, and future research suffers for that. So for example a single cited account of a ghost sighting deserves to be quoted in full.

However, if the quote isn't actually adding any new info to an existing story but merely presenting the same facts in different words, then we don't need to keep it. By all means quote snippets, but not the whole thing. Likewise, when quoting from stable, non-paywalled sites (such as the Beeb, Grauniad, etc) then an abstract, link and preferably some justifying comment will usually suffice if it's adding to an existing discussion, especially if it's high-profile. Look at various threads discussing mainstream news stories - there are pages upon pages of dense quoted text saying nothing new whatsoever, which can be argued are genuinely a waste of space. Don't get me started on the gazillion 9/11 threads.

You only really need to quote a whole, long article if it's the opening post of a new topic - and with some comment to accompany it, please. Other than that, try to just quote the salient bits. I will remind everyone, however, that cut, dump and run without comment is non-u, and just posting a single link and nothing else pointless and unhelpful. Justify, please.
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rynner2Online
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PostPosted: 09-04-2014 08:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think part of the trouble is the Twitter generation - they can't handle more than 140 characters! Twisted Evil

For myself, I'm concentrating more nowadays on the quirky little stories in local papers, that many less voracious readers might never even see.

As for comments, most interesting stories speak for themselves, although I may add some Bolds or italics to highlight significant parts.

What we need is not rules telling people what or how to post, but readers who are prepared to glance at something, say "Not interested", and move on! Wink
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MercuryCrestOffline
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PostPosted: 10-04-2014 04:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was my understanding that we were supposed to quote the entire article in the thread.

Perhaps I'm just thinking of...Fortean News Stories or something? Somewhere, doesn't it say to post the entire article in the thread?

I just assumed that, on this board at least, it was proper practice.
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PeteByrdieOffline
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PostPosted: 10-04-2014 06:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly on the opening post of a topic it's good practice to quote the whole article, or if the article is completely separate from previous posts in the thread as those in The R.I.P. Thread will often be. If I understand correctly, the objection is to articles linked to being fully quoted, when actually the article doesn't add any information beyond that already covered in the thread. I suppose it does make more sense in that case to give an overview of what new perspective such an article adds and a link rather than a whole quote. But it's never bothered me in the slightest.
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stunevilleOffline
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PostPosted: 10-04-2014 06:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

MercuryCrest wrote:
It was my understanding that we were supposed to quote the entire article in the thread.

Perhaps I'm just thinking of...Fortean News Stories or something?

Yes, it's FNS, and that's just the opening post.
PeteByrdie wrote:
..If I understand correctly, the objection is to articles linked to being fully quoted, when actually the article doesn't add any information beyond that already covered in the thread..

That's it, pretty much. Use your nous - if an article as a whole constitutes a good argument, especially one that puts a different spin on accepted wisdom, then by all means quote it in full, but if it's just repeating the same facts in a different order with no new insights then we don't need to see the whole thing.

The RIP thread was mentioned - good example. Whole articles are ok therein, as the subject of said quotes isn't the subject of the thread overall, so two or three articles about a recently-passed personality is fine - especially, again, if they cast contrasting light. However, twelve solid quoted pages of verbose toadying obsequies with no clear light between them wouldn't be acceptable.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 10-04-2014 11:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its worth noting that the thread that was singled out did not carry repeat information it was about new developments. Multiple story lines about the aftermath to the troubles in Ireland.

For the life of me I cannot understand why people can't just scroll past stories they are not interested. The other threads I identified have multiple views, one over 65, 000. Obviously the mass of viewers do not have a problem with those threads. Otherwise they would not come back to them.
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drbatesOffline
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PostPosted: 10-04-2014 19:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

But they're stories from the major news sites - that one IIRC had about 3 of those posts in a row - all from the BBC. If someone enough interest in the subject to wade through those articles they're got enough interest to have found them on the BBC website....

Its not like they're snippets from some local newspaper that noone outside of that part of the county will every stumble across - the BBC as a whole is one of the biggest websites out there, and is a major source of news pretty much across the world. A link will suffice.

Besides which, presumably the BBC holds copyright on those articles. While they wont mind you funneling traffic to their site I doubt they would be massively impressed with being cut-and-pasted to effectively pad someone elses commercial website.
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ramonmercadoOffline
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PostPosted: 10-04-2014 19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

drbates wrote:
But they're stories from the major news sites - that one IIRC had about 3 of those posts in a row - all from the BBC. If someone enough interest in the subject to wade through those articles they're got enough interest to have found them on the BBC website....

Its not like they're snippets from some local newspaper that noone outside of that part of the county will every stumble across - the BBC as a whole is one of the biggest websites out there, and is a major source of news pretty much across the world. A link will suffice.

Besides which, presumably the BBC holds copyright on those articles. While they wont mind you funneling traffic to their site I doubt they would be massively impressed with being cut-and-pasted to effectively pad someone elses commercial website.


If you don't like them then don't read them. Put me on ignore.

Again, how do the views for threads started by you compare with mine?
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drbatesOffline
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PostPosted: 10-04-2014 19:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonmercado wrote:
drbates wrote:
But they're stories from the major news sites - that one IIRC had about 3 of those posts in a row - all from the BBC. If someone enough interest in the subject to wade through those articles they're got enough interest to have found them on the BBC website....

Its not like they're snippets from some local newspaper that noone outside of that part of the county will every stumble across - the BBC as a whole is one of the biggest websites out there, and is a major source of news pretty much across the world. A link will suffice.

Besides which, presumably the BBC holds copyright on those articles. While they wont mind you funneling traffic to their site I doubt they would be massively impressed with being cut-and-pasted to effectively pad someone elses commercial website.


If you don't like them then don't read them. Put me on ignore.

Again, how do the views for threads started by you compare with mine?


I don't honestly care - Viagra ads have a MASSIVE view figure - dont mean anyone wants them. Never mind the quality, feel the width!

Besides my posts are, pretty much 'all my own work'. Do you want to ask the BBC about their copyright? I promise you, if they cut up rough every one of your 'valuable cut-and-pastes because web pages vanish' would get pulled...this is not some enthusiasts website that can plead ignorance.

Besides, as far as Im concerned the mods have given an answer to this.
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