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garrick92 Invisible Flaneur Joined: 29 Oct 2001 Total posts: 700 Gender: Unknown |
 Posted: 01-03-2013 22:27 Post subject: Crystal ball reading: Where is it now? |
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Once upon a time, no seaside resort or funfair was complete without a middle-aged or elderly woman (purportedly of Romani origin) who would beguile punters with readings from a crystal ball.
Anyone ever used one, or visited a fortune-teller who owned one?
Or have crystal balls gone the way of tea-leaf reading, i.e., to fortean oblivion? |
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| gncxx King-Size Canary
Great Old One Joined: 25 Aug 2001 Total posts: 13561 Location: Eh? Gender: Male |
| Posted: 02-03-2013 23:02 Post subject: |
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What are they supposed to be seeing in crystal balls, anyway? There's the old cliché about it going all misty and future events which will affect you in the future appearing, but how come nobody else can spot this (unless they're making it up)?
And why a crystal ball anyway? Were they mysterious objects for some time before hijacked by the mediums or did they arise part and parcel of the whole package?
Sorry, I'm answering your question with more questions... |
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| garrick92 Invisible Flaneur Joined: 29 Oct 2001 Total posts: 700 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 02-03-2013 23:41 Post subject: |
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| gncxx wrote: | | Sorry, I'm answering your question with more questions... |
I think most forteans are used to that happening -- it's almost a given!
| gncxx wrote: | | What are they supposed to be seeing in crystal balls, anyway? There's the old cliché about it going all misty and future events which will affect you in the future appearing, but how come nobody else can spot this (unless they're making it up)? |
I dunno. I read in some how-to guide on the net that the forms within the ball (cloudy, rather than clear, crystal is apparently preferable) will suggest images to the mind of the reader, but that seems deeply unsatisfactory as a mechanism.
| gncxx wrote: | | And why a crystal ball anyway? Were they mysterious objects for some time before hijacked by the mediums or did they arise part and parcel of the whole package? |
And who first manufactured one? And why? And how? |
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| gncxx King-Size Canary
Great Old One Joined: 25 Aug 2001 Total posts: 13561 Location: Eh? Gender: Male |
| Posted: 03-03-2013 00:12 Post subject: |
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| It could be connected to scrying over a bowl of water, which I believe was a popular form of prediction in ye olden days. |
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| JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Total posts: 5779 Location: Manchester, UK Gender: Male |
| Posted: 03-03-2013 00:54 Post subject: |
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It's all about seeing faces in the fire, this finding meanings in the tea-leaves and things . . .
Not sure why I hear an Irish lilt in that.
I think we have endless threads on the tendency we all have to attribute meaning to things, where none was surely meant.
Scrying used to require an Innocent - IIRC - whose readings of a cloudy oracle could foretell fortunes.
Even Catholic garden-parties used to tolerate fake fortune-telling booths, though I tried - unsuccessfully - to get the supposed mediums hanged as witches*.
*I could not (or should not) testify against my own grandmother, they said. Spoilsports!  |
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| stuneville Administrator
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 Total posts: 10230 Location: FTMB HQ Age: 46 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 03-03-2013 09:33 Post subject: |
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| garrick92 wrote: | | gncxx wrote: | | And why a crystal ball anyway? Were they mysterious objects for some time before hijacked by the mediums or did they arise part and parcel of the whole package? |
And who first manufactured one? And why? And how? |
Crystal caves were traditionally associated with shamans, elementals and prophesy: Merlin, for example, got his powers imbued in one. Seers would find them, perform rituals, and be rewarded with visions - easy to see why, firelight in an ordinary cave throws shapes and shadows on the wall, whereas in a crystal-lined one the rocks glow back, throwing back iridescent reflections. Many of these caves have quartz geodes within the walls, which are naturally, approximately spheroid. So, my theory is that mystics believed elements from the cave would keep the properties they'd had in situ, like holy relics, so would chisel out the geodes, polish them, and carry them as portable prophesy aids. From there, the crystal ball became as much a symbol of scrying as an actual intrument of prophesy in its own right.
I'm not saying that's what happened, just makes sense to me. |
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| garrick92 Invisible Flaneur Joined: 29 Oct 2001 Total posts: 700 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-03-2013 12:29 Post subject: |
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| I haven't been able to find any references to naturally-occurring crystal balls, but I did find this short piece about manufacturing them, which makes it sound like an incredibly arduous process. |
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| stuneville Administrator
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 Total posts: 10230 Location: FTMB HQ Age: 46 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-03-2013 13:35 Post subject: |
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Naturally occurring and fully formed I doubt - maybe the odd quartz node - but certainly geodes are naturally globular. As I said, only thinking aloud  . |
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| EnolaGaia Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Total posts: 1304 Location: USA Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-03-2013 16:37 Post subject: |
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I've never been able to confirm how far back in history the use of a manufactured crystal orb or ball extends. If one reviews the histories given in (e.g.):
_CRYSTAL GAZING: Its History and Practice, with a Discussion of the Evidence for Telepathic Scrying_, Northcote W. Thomas, 1905.
_Crystal Gazing: A Study in the History, Distribution, Theory and Practice of Scrying_, Theodore Besterman, 1924(?)
... One finds the claim that crystal gazing dates back to the ancients, but no specific examples or citations of orbs / balls prior to the fifteenth or sixteenth centuries. Even though both books purport to focus on crystal gazing, the examples mentioned farther back in time all seem to involve scrying with water (bowls; basins; pools) or mirrors.
The earliest documentation I've found for an orb or ball all concerns John Dee and his 'shew stone' (which accounts variously claim Dee obtained from an angel, personally introduced but eventually turned over to another scryer, or perhaps knew from his primary scryer Kelley).
Does anyone know of specific references to a crystal orb / ball artifact prior to Dee's time? |
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| emina Great Old One Joined: 06 Mar 2010 Total posts: 120 Location: Good Question Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-03-2013 19:32 Post subject: |
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| EnolaGaia wrote: | I've never been able to confirm how far back in history the use of a manufactured crystal orb or ball extends. If one reviews the histories given in (e.g.):
_CRYSTAL GAZING: Its History and Practice, with a Discussion of the Evidence for Telepathic Scrying_, Northcote W. Thomas, 1905.
_Crystal Gazing: A Study in the History, Distribution, Theory and Practice of Scrying_, Theodore Besterman, 1924(?)
... One finds the claim that crystal gazing dates back to the ancients, but no specific examples or citations of orbs / balls prior to the fifteenth or sixteenth centuries. Even though both books purport to focus on crystal gazing, the examples mentioned farther back in time all seem to involve scrying with water (bowls; basins; pools) or mirrors.
The earliest documentation I've found for an orb or ball all concerns John Dee and his 'shew stone' (which accounts variously claim Dee obtained from an angel, personally introduced but eventually turned over to another scryer, or perhaps knew from his primary scryer Kelley).
Does anyone know of specific references to a crystal orb / ball artifact prior to Dee's time? |
There's a very prominent and famous rock crystal ball in Salvator Mundi by Leonardo da Vinci. It's thought to date from as early as the 1490s. |
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| EnolaGaia Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Total posts: 1304 Location: USA Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-03-2013 21:32 Post subject: |
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| That would be consistent with the fact that I can't seem to find any specific references to crystal balls / orbs prior to the 1400's. |
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| JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Total posts: 5779 Location: Manchester, UK Gender: Male |
| Posted: 05-03-2013 01:07 Post subject: |
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Kelley is said to have used a piece of polished coal, while less well-connected scryers often had to make do with a pool of ink*. The substances are not credited with any special powers in any case, they merely enabled the scryer to envisage the fortune.
*Francis X. King: Encyclopedia of Mind, Magic & Mysteries, 1991
OK, it's a Dorling Kinder Buch but King was pretty well-read in the occult. |
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| SHAYBARSABE Great Old One Joined: 05 May 2009 Total posts: 1379 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 05-03-2013 02:09 Post subject: |
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| gncxx wrote: | | What are they supposed to be seeing in crystal balls, anyway? |
You don't look into the ball: you look at the surface of the ball--that is, at the reflections.
That's why having imperfections inside the ball (like misting or bubbling) isn't a problem. |
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| garrick92 Invisible Flaneur Joined: 29 Oct 2001 Total posts: 700 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 05-03-2013 10:38 Post subject: |
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| SHAYBARSABE wrote: | | You don't look into the ball: you look at the surface of the ball--that is, at the reflections.. |
"I'm seeing a fortune teller in your life ... looks quite a lot like me ... except his nose is massively magnified and so are his hands ... he seems to be saying something but I can't hear any words..."
But seriously, looking at the reflections sounds even dafter than having the ball's internal forms 'suggest' ideas to you. Or is there some esoteric subtlety that I'm missing? (Probably. I'm not very esoteric). |
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| gncxx King-Size Canary
Great Old One Joined: 25 Aug 2001 Total posts: 13561 Location: Eh? Gender: Male |
| Posted: 05-03-2013 19:29 Post subject: |
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| SHAYBARSABE wrote: | | gncxx wrote: | | What are they supposed to be seeing in crystal balls, anyway? |
You don't look into the ball: you look at the surface of the ball--that is, at the reflections.
That's why having imperfections inside the ball (like misting or bubbling) isn't a problem. |
I've obviously been watching too much TV! Thanks for the explanation. |
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