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ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17933 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
 Posted: 16-03-2013 22:42 Post subject: |
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| Careful! Don't say too much. I'm being followed by Monks. |
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| PaulTaylor Yeti Joined: 27 Jan 2013 Total posts: 79 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 16-03-2013 22:56 Post subject: |
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Actually, I've had a rethink. I've decided my previous paranoid rant was brought about by a human predilection to see patterns where none exist, and to interpret otherwise disparate facts to support my predetermined beliefs.
Clearly, the Catholic Church is a beautiful and benevolent organisation dedicated to the well being of those who believe in and venerate the God of Infinite Mercy. |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 21-03-2013 09:11 Post subject: |
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A refutation of some of the accusations levelled against the new Pope, from one of the alleged victims.
| Quote: | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/21/pope-francis-argentinian-junta-priest
Pope Francis did not denounce me to Argentinian junta, says priest
Francisco Jalics, who was imprisoned for five months in the 1970s, says he and the new pope reconciled in 2000
The Guardian, Jonathan Watts. 21 March 2013
Accusations that Pope Francis denounced two priests to Argentina's military junta during the 1970s have been denied by one of the survivors in a boost to the reputation of the new pontiff.
Francisco Jalics, who now lives in a German monastery, issued an online statement on Wednesday to clear up what he said were misinterpretations of his earlier comments about the role played by the pope in his five-month incarceration by the navy.
He said he was addressing reports that he and another Jesuit priest, Orlando Yorio, were imprisoned because the leader of their order, Jorge Bergoglio – as the pope was known until last week – passed on information about them to the authorities.
"I myself was once inclined to believe that we were the victims of a denunciation," Jalics said. "[But] at the end of the 90s, after numerous conversations, it became clear to me that this suspicion was unfounded. It is therefore wrong to assert that our capture took place at the initiative of Father Bergoglio."
The latest comments follow a less categorical statement that he made last week soon after the pope was chosen. In that earlier comment, he said he and Bergoglio had reconciled and "hugged solemnly" in 2000. But he also noted that he "could not comment on the role played by Father Bergoglio in these events".
Argentinian critics of the pope have continued to accuse him of wrongdoing, based on documents and old testimonies of Yorio, who died several years ago. Jalics' failure to deny this added to their suspicions.
But in the latest statement, Jalics said "Some commentaries imply the opposite of what I meant."
By contrast, his words on Wednesday were unequivocal: "The fact is: Orlando Yorio and I were not denounced by Father Bergoglio."
His comments are likely to quash many doubts, but in Argentina they are unlikely to go away completely given the frustration felt by some victims, leftist priests and government figures that Bergoglio has not adequately addressed the close links that the church had with the dictatorship.
While many accept that it was dangerous to openly confront the military during that murderous era, others feel that church leaders should subsequently have condemned the wrongdoing by priests who were so closely involved in torture and incarceration of political enemies that they have subsequently been jailed.
Bergoglio has never been accused of a crime. Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi noted on Friday that on the contrary "there have been many declarations demonstrating how much Bergoglio did to protect many persons at the time". |
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| Cultjunky Great Old One Joined: 26 Jan 2009 Total posts: 1359 Location: Leeds Age: 44 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 21-03-2013 22:03 Post subject: |
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Somewhere in a dusty corner of my mind, I remember reading an editorial regarding the 'potentials' prior to Benny getting the nod. There seemed to be a consensus that the job would go to a South American. I probably read this in the Grauniad, but Google is not my friend regarding this.
Could it be that all along, Benny was always destined to be just a temp, until it was a more suitable time for a South American to take the helm? That would be shifting us closer to a conspiracy, Shirley?
The Junta stuff from the 80's seems a little too distant, anyone remember anything from the 90's relating to scandal in the S. American Catholic community? I found the joys of MDMA around then, so I remember bugger all  |
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| Zilch5 Vogon Poet
Great Old One Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Total posts: 1527 Location: Western Sydney, Australia Gender: Male |
| Posted: 21-03-2013 22:36 Post subject: |
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I don't think Benny liked anyone who was vaguely associated with the Liberation Theology movement in the Latin American church - and Pope Francie at least has a touch of that. So in that sense his election came as a bit of a surprise.
But if they wanted to move away from the sex and financial scandals that have plagued them over the years, that precluded them from chosing anyone from Europe, the UK, or North America.
Anyway, that's my theory of how Francis got there. And the Junta story seems to be running out of steam pretty quickly. |
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| Kondoru Unfeathered Biped Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Total posts: 5788 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 22-03-2013 08:58 Post subject: |
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Yes it would do, since they must have chose anyone without a background.
But its still not `my` Pope.... |
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| kamalktk Great Old One Joined: 05 Feb 2011 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
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| OneWingedBird Great Old One Joined: 19 Nov 2012 Total posts: 542 Location: Attice of blinkey lights Age: 44 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 16-05-2013 11:03 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I hear that if you add up the letters in his name, it spells cxoswbr. |
That's definitely for real, 'cos only last night I was listening out for EVPs and i'm sure I heard one that said sdh eriucgriovg skjlhch cxoswbr sdroiughdgc. |
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| OneWingedBird Great Old One Joined: 19 Nov 2012 Total posts: 542 Location: Attice of blinkey lights Age: 44 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 16-05-2013 11:05 Post subject: |
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| There's also a finite if much smaller possibility that I might have been smoking something and the cat had just walked across the computer keyboard. |
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| Recycled1 Great Old One Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Total posts: 1823 Location: In front of the computer! Gender: Female |
| Posted: 16-05-2013 14:20 Post subject: |
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| ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17933 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
| Posted: 21-05-2013 22:31 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Did the Pope perform an exorcism?
http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/did-the-pope-perform-an-exorcism-595105.html#.UZuSKM9rGOk.facebook
21/05/2013 - 15:01:15
Religious observers are asking: “Is Pope Francis an exorcist?” after an incident in St Peter’s Square.
In the clip below, you can see the pope laying his hands on the head of a young man after celebrating Mass.
The man heaved deeply a half-dozen times, convulsed and shook, and then slumped in his wheelchair as Francis prayed over him.
The television station of the Italian bishops’ conference said it had surveyed exorcists, who agreed that Francis either performed an exorcism or a prayer to free the man from the devil.
The Vatican was more cautious, saying Francis “didn’t intend to perform any exorcism. But as he often does for the sick or suffering, he simply intended to pray for someone.”
Fuelling the speculation is Francis’ obsession with the devil, a frequent subject of his homilies.
There has been an apparent surge in demand for exorcisms among the faithful despite the irreverent treatment the rite often receives from Hollywood.
In his very first homily as pope on March 14, Francis warned cardinals gathered in the Sistine Chapel the day after he was elected that “he who doesn’t pray to the Lord prays to the devil.”
He has since mentioned the devil on a handful of occasions, most recently in a May 4 homily when in his morning Mass in the Vatican hotel chapel he spoke of the need for dialogue – except with Satan.
“With the prince of this world you can’t have dialogue: let this be clear!” he warned.
Experts said Francis’ frequent invocation of the devil is a reflection both of his Jesuit spirituality, his Latin American roots – and a reflection of a Catholic Church weakened by secularization.
“The devil’s influence and presence in the world seems to fluctuate in quantity inversely proportionate to the presence of Christian faith,” said the Rev. Robert Gahl, a theologian at Rome’s Pontifical Holy Cross University. “So, one would expect an upswing in his malicious activity in the wake of de-Christianisation and secularisation” in the world and a surge in things like drug use, pornography and superstition.
In recent years, Rome’s pontifical universities have hosted several courses for would-be exorcists on the rite, updated in 1998 and contained in a little red leather-bound booklet. The rite is relatively brief, consisting of blessings with holy water, prayers and an interrogation of the devil in which the exorcist demands to know the devil’s name and when it will leave the possessed person.
Only a priest authorized by a bishop can perform an exorcism, and canon law specifies that the exorcist must be “endowed with piety, knowledge, prudence and integrity.”
While belief in the devil is consistent with church teaching, the Holy See does urge prudence, particularly to ensure that the afflicted person is not merely psychologically ill.
The Rev. Giulio Maspero, a Rome-based systematic theologian who has witnessed or participated in more than a dozen exorcisms, says he is certain that Francis’ prayer on Sunday was either a full-fledged exorcism or a prayer to “liberate” the young man from a demonic possession. He noted that the placement of the pope’s hands on the man’s head was the “typical position” for an exorcist to use.
“When you witness something like that – for me it was shocking – I could feel the power of prayer,” he said.
He said it was particularly symbolic that Francis’ purported exorcism occurred on Pentecost, an important feast day for the church when the faithful believe Jesus’ apostles received the fullness of the Holy Spirit.
“The Holy Spirit is connected to the exorcism because ... it is the manifestation of how God is present among us and in our world,” he said.
Italian newspapers noted that the late Pope John Paul II performed an exorcism in 1982 – near the same spot where Francis prayed over the young disabled man. |
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| Mythopoeika Boring petty conservative
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Total posts: 9109 Location: Not far from Bedford Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 21-05-2013 23:39 Post subject: |
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| ...Or it could just be that he prayed over a man who has a habit of going into convulsions? |
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| gncxx King-Size Canary
Great Old One Joined: 25 Aug 2001 Total posts: 13561 Location: Eh? Gender: Male |
| Posted: 22-05-2013 18:07 Post subject: |
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Sounds a lot like the way congregation members can be overcome during evangelical sermons, it's a sort of hypnotic state induced by the stress and excitement, I believe.
Does this mean His Popeness will be making his flock speak in tongues too? Come on, let's have some snake charming. |
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| Zilch5 Vogon Poet
Great Old One Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Total posts: 1527 Location: Western Sydney, Australia Gender: Male |
| Posted: 20-09-2013 03:37 Post subject: |
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Surprising words from the pope:
| Quote: | Pope Francis says Catholic Church must shake off 'small-minded rules' on abortion, homosexuality
Pope Francis said the Catholic Church must shake off an obsession with teachings on abortion, contraception and homosexuality and become more merciful or risk the collapse of its entire moral edifice "like a house of cards".
In a dramatically blunt interview with an Italian Jesuit journal, Francis said the church had "locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules" and should not be so prone to condemn.
Its priests should be more welcoming and not cold, dogmatic bureaucrats. The confessional, he said, "is not a torture chamber but the place in which the Lord's mercy motivates us to do better".
His comments were welcomed by liberal Catholics, but they are likely to be viewed with concern by conservatives who have already expressed concern over Francis's failure to address publicly the issues stressed by his predecessor Benedict. |
More at the link: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-20/pope-francis-says-church-must-shake-off-homosexuality-obsession/4970058 |
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| Spookdaddy Cuckoo Joined: 24 May 2006 Total posts: 3924 Location: Midwich Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 20-09-2013 09:20 Post subject: |
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| Zilch5 wrote: | Surprising words from the pope:
| Quote: | | Pope Francis says Catholic Church must shake off 'small-minded rules' on abortion, homosexuality... |
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Yes, this subject was bubbling away during the Pope's Brazil trip over the summer - at the same time that the Archbishop of Canterbury was coming out with some similarly sensible and down to earth stuff about various things.
I mean, it's not exactly unqualified support, by any means - but it's a far cry from what's been said before.
The Pope and the A of C trying to talk sense?
The world's gone mad.
This is Slate's headline:
| Quote: | Pope Francis Is a Liberal
It’s not just homosexuality or birth control. He’s profoundly anti-conservative. |
As I say, the world's gone mad - Bennie must be having kittens.  |
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