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_schnor Stand back boy!
Joined: 14 Aug 2001 Total posts: 990 Location: Llangollen Gender: Male |
 Posted: 10-04-2003 20:18 Post subject: |
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| What's that? Spooky's an X-files fan??!! :p |
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| Spookyangel Anonymous lurker Age: 41 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 10-04-2003 20:43 Post subject: |
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| schnor wrote: |
What's that? Spooky's an X-files fan??!! :p |
I'll always keep you guessing. 
And yes, that was a quote...  |
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| Imperial_Call Joined: 22 Sep 2002 Total posts: 2327 |
| Posted: 10-04-2003 20:51 Post subject: |
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I saw a [US] documentary on the Beeb years ago which dealt with the subject of how they test to see if a person's dead or not [tapping the cornea, ice water in the ear] in the absence of a pulse or respiration. They talked to people who'd been so deeply comatose that they didn't react to the tests are were declared dead, but were fully aware of what was going on around them ...  Apparently in these circumstances the "corpse" can be taken to the OR and the organs removed for transplant purposes, with the chilling voice over "if they weren't dead when they entered the operating room, they certainly are now"
An awful lot of people stopped carrying donor cards after seeing this ... |
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| Anonymous |
| Posted: 11-04-2003 18:25 Post subject: |
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I hate to say this...but...
If you were to take an organ from a body, would you wait until the person was dead and no blood pumping around the body
or...
almost dead and blood still pumping through the organ you desire.
After all, who are they going to complain to afterwards?
Which is why I threw away my donor card. |
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| Anonymous |
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| Anonymous |
| Posted: 02-05-2003 16:21 Post subject: |
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Of course there's always the obvious questions:
Who are they selling these body parts to?
What are they using them for?
What doctors transplant stolen body parts?
etc........
sureshot |
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| Mighty_Emperor Divine Wind
Joined: 18 Aug 2002 Total posts: 19943 Location: Mongo Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-05-2004 03:20 Post subject: Organ harvesting? |
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| Quote: | Docs accused of live kidney removal
From correspondents in Moscow
April 29, 2004
THE Moscow prosecutor's office early today accused four Russian doctors who had tried to remove a live patient's kidneys for a transplant, of having "prepared a murder", Russian news agencies reported.
The 50-year-old man had been hospitalised last month for cranial traumatism, but when police arrived at the hospital they discovered that he had been taken away from the intensive care unit and that doctors were getting ready to remove his kidneys.
One of the doctors, transplant specialist Pyotr Pyatnichuk, was charged with attempted murder, a prosecutor's office official said.
His three colleagues, transplant specialist Bayrma Shagduriva and doctors Irina Lirtsman and Lyubov Pravdenko, were expected to be formally charged within five days.
Lirtsman, who heads the hospital's intensive care unit, was also charged with abuse of power. |
http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9419671%255E13762,00.html |
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| Anonymous |
| Posted: 04-05-2004 21:25 Post subject: So, uh |
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just when did they talk to them?
"They talked to people who'd been so deeply comatose that they didn't react to the tests are were declared dead, but were fully aware of what was going on around them ... Apparently in these circumstances the "corpse" can be taken to the OR and the organs removed for transplant purposes, with the chilling voice over "if they weren't dead when they entered the operating room, they certainly are now" |
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| Mighty_Emperor Divine Wind
Joined: 18 Aug 2002 Total posts: 19943 Location: Mongo Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 09-06-2004 13:07 Post subject: |
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A new twist? Organ harvesting for Terror??
| Quote: | Afghan children fall prey to killers who trade human organs
By Mike Collett-White in Kandahar
07 June 2004
Ismail is only 10 years old, but the horrors of the past three months will be with him to his grave. He was rescued by the Afghan authorities on Friday, after being kidnapped in March with his brother Ibrahim, 6.
Quietly, he told seeing the bodies of four boys of about his age that had been cut open. "They took us to a mountain where I saw the bodies," he said. "They had taken out the organs. They were on the ground at the bottom of this mountain, then the men took them away. They were boys of about our age. I thought I would not live long when I saw them. I was scared."
The intelligence chief for the south, Dr Abdullah Laghmani, said local forces were searching for the four bodies, having found one already in Panjwai district to the southwest of Kandahar, where he is based. "We have information they [the kidnappers] killed five children, cutting their heads off and opening their stomachs to extract their kidneys," Dr Laghmani said.
He believes the kidnappers, involved in a worrying rise in the number of disappearing children across the country, planned to sell the kidneys in Pakistan, where patients are prepared to pay large amounts of money for healthy organs. There also appear to be other motives, including extortion.
The kidnappers who seized Ismail and Ibrahim from their home in a village in the remote southwestern province of Nimruz demanded money from their grandfather, which he could not hope to pay. "During these three months I was desperate and feared that I would never see my grandsons again," said a tearful Haji Anwar, an elderly man with a white turban and matching beard. "We were planning to hold prayers for them, assuming they had died."
Ali Ahmad Jalali, the Interior Minister, said recently that hundreds of children had been taken out of the country illegally in recent years, and some had been kidnapped for their body parts.
Dr Laghmani said: "These three men who were arrested did what they did for money, but the money will end up in the hands of al-Qa'ida and Taliban."
The three kidnappers detained in the latest case had been sent to Kabul for questioning, he said. Four AK-47s and a machine-gun were found in their compound. |
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=529009 |
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| fluffle9 Great Old One Joined: 01 May 2004 Total posts: 979 Location: somewhere over the rainbow Age: 30 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 09-06-2004 15:08 Post subject: |
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| lutzman wrote: |
I hate to say this...but...
If you were to take an organ from a body, would you wait until the person was dead and no blood pumping around the body
or...
almost dead and blood still pumping through the organ you desire.
After all, who are they going to complain to afterwards?
Which is why I threw away my donor card. |
i don't think that it is *that much* in the doctors' interests to transplant your organs that they would do something so nasty. they are human beings too, remember, and i expect that there is a good deal of paperwork needed in order to prove that the person is dead before the organs are removed.
personally i am prepared to take the risk in order to have a chance of saving lives after i'm dead, so i am on the organ donation register.
uk residents can add themselves to the NHS register online:
http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/how_to_become_a_donor/how_to_become_a_donor.htm |
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| Mighty_Emperor Divine Wind
Joined: 18 Aug 2002 Total posts: 19943 Location: Mongo Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 09-06-2004 18:32 Post subject: |
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A good (if lengthy) report on the illegal organ trade which casts some light on why it might be worth taking them (or not as there are enough people willing to give up a kidney):
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0609/p01s03-wogi.html
Emps |
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| Anonymous |
| Posted: 14-06-2004 18:12 Post subject: |
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I think there needs to be some distinction made between people who willingly sell something like a kidney and people who are abducted, murdered etc. (allegedly) for their organs.
An organ transplant is pretty complicated isn't it? I have no medical training, but there have to be tests, etc. done to make sure sure donor and recipient are compatible. Therefore, it would make no sense to snatch someone off the street and hope their organs were compatible with someone else. There are also other things like anti-rejection drugs involved. Therefore, I have always thought that the stories of random people being abducted for organs is a UL.
sureshot |
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| Mighty_Emperor Divine Wind
Joined: 18 Aug 2002 Total posts: 19943 Location: Mongo Age: 42 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 12-07-2004 15:05 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Chinese loansharks attempt to force man to sell kidney to pay back debts
Thu Jul 8, 9:53 AM ET
SHANGHAI, China (AP) - Talk about extracting 500 grams of flesh.
Alleged loansharks tried to force a Shanghai man to sell one of his kidneys to pay back a 30,000 yuan (,750 Cdn) debt, the Shanghai Daily reported Thursday. The two men kidnapped habitual gambler Lu Ronfeng and demanded doctors at a city hospital remove the organ, the Shanghai Daily reported Thursday.
Turned away, they decided to take him to the inland province of Anhui for the operation, but Lu escaped in the hospital parking lot and ran to a policeman.
One of the alleged loansharks, Li Shenghe, was arrested on the spot and has been charged with illegally holding Lu, it said. Li denied trying to make Lu sell his kidney. His accomplice escaped.
"Whether they forced Lu to sell his kidney or not, the fact is they detained him illegally," the paper quoted prosecutor Zheng Haiquan as saying.
China is an international centre for organ transplants, many of them allegedly taken from the bodies of executed criminals. |
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1835&e=20&u=/cpress/oddity_china_kidney_kidnappers |
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| escargot1 Joined: 24 Aug 2001 Total posts: 17896 Location: Farkham Hall Age: 4 Gender: Female |
| Posted: 12-07-2004 16:11 Post subject: |
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A blood-curdling Guardian article some years ago described how organ donors had to be restrained even though they were brain-dead because the pain-defence reflexes are so strong that the 'dead' person's arms will rise up and appear to try to fight off the doctors.
Scared me anyway. It seems that numbers of UK card-carriers dropped after that article. Wonder why. 
Abducting strangers in order to steal their organs would work if the criminals had a back-up organisation, eg a waiting list with different requirements, enough doctors, nurses and ancilliary staff with families vulnerable to threats, somewhere to dispose of the victims' bodies and so on. Sounds a little science fiction.
Also, organ transplants don't always take. The criminals would need a 'returns' policy! |
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| Anonymous |
| Posted: 12-07-2004 19:27 Post subject: |
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Yes the chances of ejection etc are pretty high aren't they?
I suppose the main protagonist of anything like this would be a rogue doctor who'd have access to medical records, blood types etc. and would be "advising " gangs on potential victims, even then your looking at having to engineer a situation to get the bits out and then get them into the recipient...
Maybe this myth/legend is a deep routed fear of doctors coupled with a worry for losing control?
I have no doubt there's rogue doctors out there doing something naughty like selling peoples bits bits and arranging transplants, there's a rogue element in every profession but I remain sceptical of the "classic" UL of waking up with bit's missing after being drugged at a party taken by some gang on the off chance. |
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