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Woolwich terror attack
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MadameTrunkoOffline
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PostPosted: 19-12-2013 13:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spookdaddy wrote:
I suspect the issue is down to camera type, picture quality and exposure, and the angle the images were taken from - but, given that the guy thinks Lee Rigby didn't exist, knows with 'some certainty that NO children died at Sandy Hook', and that 'most of' the plane passengers at 911 were photoshopped (who the poor unlucky few were, I'm not sure), I suspect he wouldn't be at all interested in so mundane an answer.


Looking through some of his other videos, it seems that he previously earned a bit of infamy for claiming that there would be an Illuminati Zionist attack on the 2012 Olympics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVn-2MFr5vI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFMg9Nj7mmE

Ironically enough, his previous account name was apparently YouKnowIAmRight.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 19-12-2013 17:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

This verdict probably comes as no great surprise:

Quote:
Two guilty of Lee Rigby murder

Two men have been found guilty of murdering soldier Lee Rigby outside Woolwich barracks in south-east London in May.

Michael Adebolajo, 29, and Michael Adebowale, 22, struck Fusilier Rigby with a car before hacking him to death.

Adebolajo had claimed he was a "soldier of Allah" and the killing was an act of war.

The men were found not guilty of attempting to murder a police officer at the scene.

'Family in tears'

The Old Bailey jury of eight women and four men took approximately 90 minutes to reach its verdicts.

They had heard that Adebolajo and Adebowale drove a car into Fusilier Rigby at 30-40mph, before dragging him into the road and attacking him with knives and attempting to decapitate him with a meat cleaver.

Mr Justice Sweeney ordered that the verdicts be heard in silence. He said he would pass sentence after a key appeal court ruling on the use of whole life terms in January.

He expressed his "gratitude and admiration" for the soldier's family, saying they had "sat in court with great dignity throughout what must have been the most harrowing of evidence".

As the defendants were taken out of the courtroom, Adebolajo kissed his Koran and raised it in the air.



More here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25450555

Let's hope that these two headcases are not allowed to continue spreading their poisonous message to other inmates whilst incarcerated.
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AMPHIARAUS
PostPosted: 19-12-2013 23:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just surprised they were allowed a trial. I would have thought that judged to be clinically insane then locked up in perpetuity for public safety would have prevented them gaining a soapbox and certainly been closer to the truth.
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gncxxOffline
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PostPosted: 19-12-2013 23:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the majority of the population recognise their unthinking mania as not worth listening to, but I agree there may be a tiny minority out there who take an unhealthy interest in what they say, even an inspiration, which is worrying.
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GinandoOffline
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PostPosted: 20-12-2013 10:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the interview with Adebolaja's brother on Sky this morning showed that here we had an otherwise intelligent sounding and seemingly rational person who has warped his Muslim beliefs into justifying bloody murder. The most frightening element was that he (the brother) clearly thinks that killing Lee Rigby was an act of war, and both the place and manner were of no consequence.

Last edited by Ginando on 20-12-2013 22:28; edited 1 time in total
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 20-12-2013 11:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm just surprised they were allowed a trial. I would have thought that judged to be clinically insane


Adobowale - the younger of the two and apparent "junior partner" in the operation - does indeed seem to be mentally ill and reports yesterday indicated it was 50/50 as to whether he would be judged fit to stand trial. He had experienced some sort of breakdown following a violent stabbing prior to his conversion and more recently apparently indicated to a prison chaplain that he was Christian, not Muslim.

Adobolajo on the other hand - and his brother it seems - are following their interpretation of their religion. I see no evidence of mental illness. This interpretation is sadly pretty common and stems from the very early days of Islam. Mohammed himself was known for decapitating his enemies. Politicians and media really need to stop pussy-footing around with this "religion of peace" nonsense and start tackling what is at its heart a totalitarian ideology. No more Saudi/Qatari funding of mosques and madrasas in the UK. Hate preachers in mosques treated according to the law. Crack down on radical groups proselytising in colleges and prisons.
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Pietro_Mercurios
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PostPosted: 20-12-2013 14:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

More gloomy prospects.
Quote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lee-rigby-murder-uks-street-gangs--are-the-next-breeding-ground-for-new-brand-of-extremist-9016698.html

Lee Rigby murder: UK’s street gangs ' are the next breeding ground for new brand of extremist'

Independent. Paul Peachey. 19 December 2013


Young urban gang members have been targeted by charismatic preachers for conversion to a radical form of Islam, in a development not being properly addressed by the Government's security programme, community leaders claimed in the wake of the Woolwich trial.

The case of two black Muslim converts, both from criminal backgrounds and with a highly tuned sense of grievance, has highlighted concerns that efforts to prevent radicals are focused too much on universities and so-called middle-class converts.

Gang members inside and out of prison had been "groomed" - but MPs warned in a report last year that the main government anti-terrorism strategy makes no mention of the threat from this group of vulnerable and marginalised young men, many of whom have grown up in a culture of violence.

"There hasn't been enough focus on people like gang members, people from deprived areas or [those with] an anti-establishment mindset... this is one of the ungoverned spaces," said Ghaffar Hussain, head of research at Quilliam, the anti-extremist organisation.

[Video]

Michael Adebowale was a member of a gang at the time of his conversion at the age of 17, police confirmed, but his path to radicalisation remained unclear.

MPs found that converts to Islam were at particular risk of radicalisation. In April, Richard Dart, a white security guard converted by Anjem Choudary - former leader of the now-banned al-Muhajiroun group - was jailed for six years for plotting to attack soldiers at Royal Wootton Bassett.

One in five terror-linked prosecutions are connected to al-Muhajiroun, according to the Henry Jackson Society, and the group is said to have had links with dozens of young Muslims travelling to Syria.

The Government said this month that it was considering new orders to try to ban groups that spread extremist views. Theresa May, the Home Secretary, said: "We have some of the toughest counter-terrorism laws in the democratic world and we are resolute in our determination to counter the threats to our way of life posed by extremist behaviour and ideologies."

But security officials have warned of a more complex threat emerging from lone-wolf attackers and smaller groups. For teenagers in trouble with the police, failing at school and alienated from society, political Islam can appear a noble cause, said community workers.

Alyas Karmani, the director of Street UK, which ran a de-radicalisation programme focused on young black recruits of Islamist extremists, said the recruits were approached by "sophisticated individuals".

"In the urban environment, being Muslim carries a bit of street cred. It's the urban religion of choice," he said. "It's about religion sticking two fingers up at the establishment. It's an attractive mix. It validates criminality."

MPs were told last year that Abdullah al-Faisal, an Islamic preacher and black convert jailed and later deported for soliciting the murder of Hindus and Jews, convinced a man three cells from his own to undertake a martyrdom mission within three days of his arrival at Belmarsh prison.

The man left prison and went to Yemen, seeking a training camp, but was diverted to an Islamic school and returned to Britain.

"These kids' constant experiences are of being victims, and then the radicalised movement comes along and offers them the opportunity to be heroic," said Camilla Batmanghelidjh, the founder of Kids Company, which works with vulnerable children in the capital. "The radicalisers are identifying the most vulnerable kids... They're showing them videos that are getting progressively worse, alleged atrocities by the British. Then they're sending them to training camps abroad."

If you're alienated enough then the sort of logic and reasoning that makes such attacks possible is fairly easy to justify. Similar things happened in NI in the 1970s, though usually out of sight of cameras.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 20-12-2013 15:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you're alienated enough then the sort of logic and reasoning that makes such attacks possible is fairly easy to justify.


Yes, I think I've posted before about a friend of mine who does volunteer work in prisons and Islam seems to be particularly attractive to the inmates - the prison officers describe it as "the biggest club there is". It seems to appeal to alienated young men, most of whom are not terribly bright, in a way that other religions do not.
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MythopoeikaOffline
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PostPosted: 20-12-2013 23:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quake42 wrote:
Quote:
If you're alienated enough then the sort of logic and reasoning that makes such attacks possible is fairly easy to justify.


Yes, I think I've posted before about a friend of mine who does volunteer work in prisons and Islam seems to be particularly attractive to the inmates - the prison officers describe it as "the biggest club there is". It seems to appeal to alienated young men, most of whom are not terribly bright, in a way that other religions do not.


It probably appeals most to young men who have an innate fear/hatred of women, and who feel that 'western' culture and society emasculates them.
Islam appears to empower them, and then they get sucked into all the other stuff, ending in them believing any old nonsense that is tossed their way.
These people are followers, not thinkers, and they can be easily manipulated by people with an agenda.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 21-12-2013 18:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It probably appeals most to young men who have an innate fear/hatred of women, and who feel that 'western' culture and society emasculates them.


There might be an element of that but I think it's more that (a) the male companionship element is appealing to them and gives them a gang to be part of and (b) the sense of victimhood which accompanies much Islamic thought in the UK. There's also a practical issue in that in some prisons at least Muslim inmates receive different food - it's not only halal meat, but things like curries etc rather than pies and the like - which is generally seen as more attractive.
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JamesWhiteheadOffline
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PostPosted: 21-12-2013 19:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not wholly go along with the victim line. Many of the Asian boys I have known to toy with extremist beliefs are far from deprived. Many are spoiled rotten: the mere fact of being a male child has allowed them to ride high on a sea of indulgence from extended networks of uncles.

A respectful attitude to elders can, in some circumstances, bring boys under the influence of radical preachers online as well as socially. Meanwhile, the male bonding with their peers will revolve around cars, parties and flouting many of the rules of Islam. This combination of official observance with practical amorality is disturbing since it goes with youthful energy and the firm belief that any attempt to curb them must be essentially racist.
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Quake42Offline
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PostPosted: 21-12-2013 20:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would not wholly go along with the victim line. Many of the Asian boys I have known to toy with extremist beliefs are far from deprived. Many are spoiled rotten: the mere fact of being a male child has allowed them to ride high on a sea of indulgence from extended networks of uncles.


Indeed - but the prison radicalisation which I was referencing is not typically an "Asian" thing - as I understand it this tends to revolve around converts from other backgrounds, often young black boys from urban environments. Both of the Woolwich murderers would seem to fall into this sort of group although neither seem to have been from particularly deprived backgrounds.
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CochiseOffline
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PostPosted: 23-12-2013 10:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quake42 wrote:


Indeed - but the prison radicalisation which I was referencing is not typically an "Asian" thing - as I understand it this tends to revolve around converts from other backgrounds, often young black boys from urban environments. Both of the Woolwich murderers would seem to fall into this sort of group although neither seem to have been from particularly deprived backgrounds.


Nothing especially surprising about people in such circumstances wanting to join the gang that appears to be winning.
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