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Posted: 31-08-2013 04:24 Post subject: Central American Bird, French Cathedral

A man spoke to me after a panel at WorldCon today, repeating what was told to him. An old woman of his acquaintance, at that time resident in Mexico City, who was born in East Prussia and emigrated to Mexico in the 30s, had gone back to Europe to settle a property matter, and on visiting a cathedral (he thought it was one of the big ones, like Chartres or Notre Dame; it wasn't clear to me why he thought it was a French cathedral but perhaps she was taking the opportunity to tourist around, and after all it wasn't his story, so who knows what got changed up in his memory) spotted a distinctive Central American bird carved into the original stonework.

Not much to go on, I know. He thought the kind of bird began with K, but this is not much use; few birds begin with K, in English, but quite a few begin with a K-sound spelled with a C; and if the name is in Spanish, or derived from Nahuatl, we must include things beginning with Q, as to an English-accustomed ear the sound transliterated with Qu in Spanish is similar enough to the K sound to create confusion. And in my experience, when you're trying to remember a word, and can only come up with the first letter, it's as likely to be the wrong one as not.

But if anyone besides this woman ever noticed it, someone in the cryptozoological subculture must be aware of it, so I toss this out there, in hope of learning more, or at least being pointed down interesting side roads.

Posted: 31-08-2013 07:25 Post subject:

The first bird-name candidate that comes to mind is 'quetzal'.

I'm not sure what it might be in a carving that would uniquely identify a bird as a quetzal, though. Except for their famously bright coloration, they resemble a lot of other birds.

Posted: 31-08-2013 19:44 Post subject:

Personally I'm hard pushed to think of any South American birds with a particularly distinctive except the toucan, and possibly the hoatzin.

Posted: 31-08-2013 21:30 Post subject:

Posted: 31-08-2013 21:44 Post subject:

Or this Alien gargoyle

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23810978

In fact here's an article highlighting a few more of these, the nasty Gremlin is really impressive.

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pop-culture-gargoyles-in-gothic-architecture

Posted: 01-09-2013 08:12 Post subject:

I'd concur that -- prosaically -- "later replacement" would seem on balance, the likeliest explanation. Scenarios for a Central American bird appearing in Europe several centuries before Columbus, are entertaining to spin; but, I feel, basically beyond-crazy (bird passed along as a pet, between different Native American peoples up from Central America, to what would become New England / Maritime Canada -- i.e. Vinland of the Vikings -- then a Norse seafarer acquiring the bird there, and taking it to Europe, where a cathedral mason might have seen it: definitely the stuff of bad speculative fiction).

Posted: 01-09-2013 14:15 Post subject:

Actually this guy's idea was "hurricane." He wanted a Carib stonemason, which I agree is far-fetched; but as any birdwatcher can tell you, birds cross oceans that way all the time. That's where current American populations of cattle egrets, an African native, came from in the 50s - and they've naturalized very well, fallen into an unoccupied ecological niche, and are not considered invasive at all. "Accidentals" are common enough to form a category on birding checklists for specific areas.

A lone caracara, or cotinga, or quetzal, or some other bird (and we can't really limit ourselves to a K sound; I know when I'm sure the word I'm looking for begins with some letter I'm generally wrong) could easily have gotten tossed up onshore in Western Europe by bad luck and bad weather, attracted the attention of a stone mason, and been commemorated, especially if the locals attached some meaning to it. And a number of Central American birds have distinctive silhouettes and field marks that could be readily conveyed in stone work; consider the marvelous tail of the resplendent quetzal:
http://billofthebirds.blogspot.com/2006/03/quetzal-resplendent.html#

The point of the query is to uncover candidates for the carving in question, to find out what might really be there. Of course with a story as vague as that it's easy to speculate dismissively; I could do that my ownself, but it's boring and pointless without a specific anchor point in the real world.

At the moment, I don't even know what she saw. But I would like to see it.

Posted: 01-09-2013 14:28 Post subject:

This will probably never get settled without more details, but ...

Sticking with the quetzal theory for now ...

The most visually striking and celebrated quetzal is the so-called Resplendent Quetzal (national bird of Guatemala, and the most likely one to be remembered as a stereotype). This species might be identified as such (sans color; in a carving) based on:

- Its extremely long tail plumage
- Its helmet-like spiked crest (males)
- Its peculiar foot morphology

Quetzals belong to a family of birds called trogons. Trogons can be found in Africa and Asia. Some of these Old World relatives have crests and relatively long tail plumage (though nowhere near as dramatic as some New World varieties).

My guess would be the carving was of an Old World trogon (or other Old World bird with elongated tail and possibly a crest). Or the carving might have had quetzal-like features (tail / crest) deriving from artistic license. Medieval art isn't known for life-like details, so I wouldn't be surprised to find a medieval (e.g.) peacock figure that could be construed as quetzal-like.

Posted: 01-09-2013 16:53 Post subject:

Was the bird a condor?

Posted: 01-09-2013 20:47 Post subject:

Posted: 01-09-2013 21:14 Post subject:

Posted: 02-09-2013 21:06 Post subject:

No; I think the best place would be paging through books about carvings in Central European cathedrals.

You'd be surprised how often it's possible to hook up some vague story I heard with some bit of concrete knowledge somebody else has. In this instance, for example, someone might say: "You know, this cathedral I visited last year had lots of bird imagery in it" and send me a link, and I might follow it and find pictures showing what looked like a quetzal to me, but which I saw by the text has been identified as a standard medieval conception of the peacock (or something).

Or the Central American Bird in Chartres might have been a standard folklore motif among cryptozoologists, for all I knew. You don't find out if you don't bring the subject up.

Posted: 02-09-2013 21:50 Post subject:

Posted: 02-09-2013 22:43 Post subject:

What we really need is a pic of the bird. Perhaps someone with better google skills than I can find one.